Ep. 81 The Stern Truth: Business Therapy Thursday With Chad and Ambri

On today’s Business Therapy Thursday episode, I sit down with Ambri and Chad, co-owners of Vallee Sausage in Chilliwack, BC. Vallee Sausage is a butcher shop, sausage production facility, and European deli that their community absolutely loves. Ambri and Chad purchased Vallee Sausage from its previous owner, who ran everything himself alongside one long-time employee. But they never had any SOPs in place.

When that employee left, sales dropped and stress went up. Chad and Ambri were left holding the reins of a business with no documented systems, no standard operating procedures, and a whole lot of personal history between them.

We get into the difference between perfectionism and having high standards in this episode. Ambri talks about how she runs a tight ship and wants things done right; Chad says he would rather have things done fast. And the two of them clash over something as simple as how bacon is packaged in the display case.

We also dig into the very real challenge of running a business when a personal relationship has broken down. I commend both of them for even getting to this point, because the emotional weight of a previous relationship while trying to keep a business alive is no small thing.

A big takeaway from this session is the importance of clearly defined roles and responsibilities. We wrap up with a set of action steps for them to do, like building out SOPs starting with health and safety (this is a butcher shop, after all), defining partner roles and responsibilities, and looking at better systems for custom orders.

Vallee Sausage fills a real need in the Chilliwack community, and Ambri and Chad clearly believe in what they've built. As Amber learned, and so deftly shared with us, failure is not a bad thing, because business is always moving forward. Lucky for Vallee Sausage, it’s moving forward with two of them.

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Transcript

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[00:00:00] Marshall Stern: All right, we are back with another special Business Therapy Thursday episode. This is basically a deep dive clarity strategy coaching session where we sit down with a business owner, an entrepreneur, someone who has a vision, and they might be currently stuck. They might be stuck growing their business.

[00:00:22] They could be stuck with a specific challenge that they want to work through. This is an amazing episode. You don't want to miss it. And if you want to be a guest on a Business Therapy Thursday episode, simply reach out to me, marshall@marshallstern.net, and we'll have a chat to see if this is a fit for you.

[00:00:41] Also, don't forget, if you want to be around other business owners, come check us out, the ONtrepreneur Inner Circle. The link is again below. We meet weekly on Tuesdays. You can simply come as my guest. In any case, grab your pad of paper and be ready for some really big insights in this special Business Therapy Thursday episode.

[00:01:07] Hi, I'm Marshall Stern and I've spent over 35 years leading and growing multiple small businesses. I know firsthand the struggles of entrepreneurship, feeling isolated, lonely, overwhelmed, and feeling like you have to do it all by yourself. I've been through multiple recessions, and I have felt the highs and the lows. 

[00:01:26] I've been there, and I get it. This podcast is here to change that. Every week I will bring you straight talking advice, real world strategies, and honest conversations about what it takes to succeed in business without the fluff, the gimmicks, or the sugar-coated. If you're ready to stop spinning your wheels and start making real progress, then you are in the right place.

[00:01:50] This is the Stern Truth. 

[00:01:54] All right. Welcome back to another Business Therapy Thursday session. And we have a very unique and a very amazing pair of business owners here in Ambri and Chad. Welcome to the Business Therapy Thursday. How are you both? 

[00:02:10] Ambri: Doing well. How are you? 

[00:02:11] Marshall Stern: I'm good, thank you. Okay. Just for our listeners, then we're going to get right into this deep dive coaching session, which is really what this is.

[00:02:19] Tell us a little bit about context of your business and your place in the business, and together as business partners. 

[00:02:27] Ambri: So, Chad and I purchased a preexisting business in Chilliwack, a small storefront called Vallee Sausage, which is a butcher shop and sausage production facility, as well as a small storefront European deli.

[00:02:45] Marshall Stern: Okay. 

[00:02:46] Ambri: The previous owner had run this as a owner-operator. He made all of the sausages himself, and he did all the butchering and did that side of the business with the meat cutting all himself, and he had basically one amazing staff member who ran everything for 15 years. All the other components of the store were left to her, and she was just an amazing, phenomenal employee, and all of the customers loved her.

[00:03:16] She built an amazing customer base, and it was really... Everything was her self-driven, but she had no policies and procedures in place for anyone else coming in, like another staff member or fresh on how to run it, say, like, if she left or something happened to her. 

[00:03:34] Marshall Stern: Perfect. Okay. Chad, what would you like to add to that?

[00:03:38] Chad: Myself speaking, I guess for me the challenge is, is just the sales are down and I don't know if it's the economy or if us losing our staff member has, you know, stopped some people from coming in. But, really, just trying to push hard to get back to where we were and, and, and beyond that.

[00:03:57] Marshall Stern: And refresh my memory, so what's, what does your business partnership look like?

[00:04:03] Ambri: So, Chad and I used to be partners in a relationship together, and we thought that owning a business together would be a good idea. We're both very strong-headed, kind of business-minded individuals. And I think through our strong-headedness and through navigating some of the struggles in this business, our relationship has kind of collapsed, and we are now just business partners working together trying to maintain this business relationship.

[00:04:37] And we really do this because we believe that this business is so loved in the community, it's so important to our community. So many customers love that it's filler-free, gluten-free, dairy-free, especially people with allergies and illnesses that can't eat regular foods from the grocery store.

[00:04:55] So we really just believe that it has a place here and we want to keep it successful. 

[00:05:00] Marshall Stern: And, and I'm curious before we get really into it, but this is kind of getting into it, the previous setup of your relationship to now, does that ever come... Is there ever friction between the two of you now that you are no longer together in that way?

[00:05:17] Chad: Just right down to the brass tacks, eh? Oh, yeah. I mean, we have our, we have our arguments, we have our disagreements. There's times when I walk out, she walks out. I mean, imagine, I mean, just imagine trying to deal with a, a relationship failing and trying to successfully keep the business from failing.

[00:05:42] I mean, there's still a lot of emotions, and it, it's, it's definitely a challenge on its own.

[00:05:49] Marshall Stern: Told you, this is like a no BS podcast, right? Just, like, get right to it. So, listen, having a, a spout- like a spousal kind of, like, an intimate relationship with anyone has its challenges. Having a business partnership with anyone has its challenges.

[00:06:06] And I've had both. Having it together as one and then going back to its corners, respective corners, is even more challenging. So, I... When we first met, I mentioned, like, I, I acknowledge and commend both of you. That's probably a better word. Commend both of you for even getting to this point, because that must be a real...

[00:06:24] Like, you're behind the eight ball. Let’s, let’s not, like... No BS here. You're behind the eight ball, because you have this now hanging over your heads. "Oh, remember when you did this? Remember you" It's different, right? But what I love is that you have this vision together. Tell me about what your roles are in the business each.

[00:06:44] Ambri: So, since we have separated our lives more, we decided that not working as closely together would be in the best interest of both of us. 

[00:06:53] Marshall Stern: Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:54] Ambri: So Chad actually took a step back from working in the business for a number of months, and was working outside of the business, and we would just kind of touch base on, you know, what was happening day to day, like orders or certain things.

[00:07:11] And primarily, I was the one heading things and being in charge, so to speak. Now we've kind of seen some issues that are arising, and we're trying to more collectively, like, work together to kind of solve the problems that are going on, because we feel like it's too much just for one person, and that we should probably delegate and split the things up so that we can better put systems in place that are really going to be beneficial for us in the coming years. 

[00:07:44] Marshall Stern: So, in the... What would make today's session really, really powerful for the two of you? Like, I mean so powerful that maybe there's tears, okay? May- maybe at the end of... I want to, I want to see Chad in tears. Maybe that's my, that's my goal for today. I want to see - maybe at the end of the session you are just so pumped up, and you are so appreciative that you reach out to everyone and say, "You've got to talk to Marshall.

[00:08:08] You have to work with Marshall." What would make this so powerful for you, helpful for you? Chad?

[00:08:13] Chad: Ambri, you can answer first, because I'm really going to have to think about that.

[00:08:18] Marshall Stern: Okay. 

[00:08:19] Ambri: I think for me it's because there were no policies and procedures in place, and they didn't hire staff members, and this was a woman doing everything herself that eventually got burnt out, I think that is what I want to avoid.

[00:08:35] I want to avoid being this person that is doing everything myself, getting to the point of being so overwhelmed that I eventually get burnt out and give up. Instead, I would like to know how to put systems in place, procedures in place, policies in place, but also things that are realistic and not so over the top that they're going to alienate my staff or the people working for me.

[00:09:00] Marshall Stern: Mm. 

[00:09:01] Ambri: So, things that are really going to be things that take stress and workload from me so that I can focus on actually doing other things that will make things better in the long-term vision. 

[00:09:15] Marshall Stern: Okay. Perfect. 

[00:09:16] Ambri: And so that it's also easier for the staff to know, "These are my rules and responsibilities," and then they know exactly what they're supposed to be doing.

[00:09:23] Marshall Stern: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:09:24] Chad: We're pretty close to being burnt out now, so if something doesn't change, I don't know if it's going to be feasible long term to keep going, because obviously her health is more important than any business, so...

[00:09:39] Marshall Stern: That's, that's... You're a good guy. You're a good guy, Chad. You're a good guy. No.

[00:09:44] That's... But you don't have to get burnt out. We can avoid that. And I think one of the things... So, what I'm hearing is a combination of avoiding burnout, putting systems and policies into place, the procedures in place, while increasing revenue.

[00:10:00] Chad: Yeah, that would be it. Because I feel like both of us are very of the same personality type, where if we do it, we're going to do it right the first time and it's going to be done. And I don't think that bodes well into being a business owner. 

[00:10:13] Marshall Stern: Yeah. Well, no, and when you're stuck, like when you're stuck adding the meats and doing every - doing the work, right? So, I just... It's, it, it's ironic. I just came back from Nanaimo yesterday. I went there. I was doing a speaking engagement in Nanaimo to a group of small business owners.

[00:10:30] And it's one of the things I talk about in, in this particular talk.  and it's all about moving away from just being in the business all the time. And not just being in the business, because you can be in the business and love your work. You might not grow, though, if you're always stuck as the employee of your business.

[00:10:46] And Ambri, we have to... It sounds like you are the employee of the business. 

[00:10:51] Ambri: Yeah. 

[00:10:51] Marshall Stern: Or have been. 

[00:10:52] Ambri: Yes. And I am also a bit of a perfectionist. 

[00:10:56] Marshall Stern: Okay. 

[00:10:56] Ambri: And my staff yesterday, I was like, "Guys." I was like, "I'm really not asking a lot here. Like, I'm not a perfectionist." And I saw them all like do this, "Okay," like, "You don't think you're asking a lot."

[00:11:08] And to me, I guess I don't feel like I am, but to them, they think this is maybe too much. 

[00:11:14] Marshall Stern: Chad? 

[00:11:15] Chad: Yeah? 

[00:11:16] Marshall Stern: Work with me, my friend. Work with me. Is Ambri a perfectionist, or does she have high standards?

[00:11:21] Chad: Can you have both? because she's definitely a perfectionist.

[00:11:25] Marshall Stern: You can have both, and you can have one or the other.

[00:11:28] Chad: I'm going to, I'm going to put an example from yesterday, because this one kind of teased me a little bit. I was packaging bacon yesterday. It is not rocket science. You put the bacon on a wooden tray with a stick under it, you put it in the bag, you flip it over, you take it out, you vacuum seal it.

[00:11:44] It's a pack of bacon. And I'm flying through them, and she walks over and she gets this, "What are you doing?" And I'm like, "What do you mean, what am I doing? I'm packing bacon." And she's like, "Look at my bacon, and look at your bacon." And hers are all individually spaced perfectly, perfectly laid out. And mine are the...it's bacon. So-

[00:12:04] Marshall Stern: My bacon's better than your bacon.

[00:12:05] Chad: Yeah. Well, and she is of the mindset that it needs to be perfect because, you know, for the reasons... And my mindset is, is we need to get it out in the case so it can sell, so people can take it home and eat it.

[00:12:18] Marshall Stern: Okay 

[00:12:19] Ambri: And my mindset also... I went one further with Chad on this yesterday, so I was like, "Hey."

[00:12:25] I was like, when you're looking at people, aesthetically speaking, most men want to be with someone that they're attracted to. They want to... You know, visually, the first thing is, is that you see something with your eyes, it's visually appealing, it's attractive, and then you, you want it second. You want to see what it's about.

[00:12:44] So if the bacon is visually appealing and it looks a certain way in the case, and it's very presentable, then it's going to look visually appealing, and you're eating with your eyes first. 

[00:12:55] Marshall Stern: Who, who is, is your ideal client, are they more male or female? 

[00:12:59] Ambri: I'd say a mix. A good mix, yeah. 

[00:13:01] Marshall Stern: So that's – okay. So, Chad packages up the women, the bacon for the women, because they don't care about the visual as much, do they? And Ambri, you package up the bacons because the men are looking at the packaging. But the g- most important question here is, is it side bacon or back bacon? Very important.

[00:13:18] Chad: It is black Forest bacon ... black Forest bacon, so it's a bacon from the Black Forest region of Germany.

[00:13:25] Marshall Stern: Oh, okay.

[00:13:26] Chad: So, it is not like your regular bacon that when you cook it, and three quarters of it disappears. Bacon stays the same size and...

[00:13:36] Marshall Stern: Okay. Okay, I just wanted to clear that up. So, we didn't really get that answer, because I don't know if it's – I'm going to say it's more – I'm going to say it's more back bacon.

[00:13:42] Is it in strips, or no?

[00:13:44] Chad: Yeah, it's in strips. Okay, strips. It's like your regular bacon.

[00:13:47] Marshall Stern: Okay.

[00:13:47] Chad: But it's just a different, different way of preparing it than traditional Canadian bacon. We also do sell back bacon. Just not as regularly.

[00:13:56] Marshall Stern: Okay. Okay. Perfect. Okay. Glad we, glad we had that cleared up.

[00:14:00] Okay. So back to the, back to the bacon. Again, so perfections versus high standards. So here is... And this is sort of what goes into the SOPs, right? If you have standard operating procedures, is this. And it's like, it's like McDonald's. You have to come up with standards. You don't have to. You don't do anything, but you should come up with a standard for the company.

[00:14:22] This is how, for everyone, this is not just for Chad, this is for every employee that walks through that door, and the two of you as partners have to come up with that standard. This is what an agreement with the standard is. This is what the packaging, the right packaging, the standard for our business looks like.

[00:14:40] Vallee Sausage, this is the standard of Vallee Sausage. Anything less... it's not about being a perfectionist. It's about a standard. This is a high standard. Because honestly, people are going to come back and back, and if it's different all the time and they're getting less and they're getting this or whatever...

[00:14:58] I mean, I know food is difficult, but McDonald's has figured it out. 

[00:15:01] Ambri: Yeah 

[00:15:03] Marshall Stern: Okay 

[00:15:04] Ambri: They have that consistency. 

[00:15:05] Marshall Stern: Most of the time they do. Although I was at the McDonald's in Whistler about three years ago, it was a really hot day, and I got one of the hot fudge sundaes, and obviously something was wrong with their machine, and it was like foam.

[00:15:18] It was like whipped cream. 

[00:15:19] Ambri: Gross. 

[00:15:19] Marshall Stern: And I completely – 

[00:15:20] Chad: Isn't the McDonald's ice cream machine always down? 

[00:15:23] Marshall Stern: Well, I've never had this. This was like having foam. And they, they replaced it. "Oh, I'm so sorry." And they gave me another cup of foam. But it was consistent. It was foam. But normally, yeah. So, but it is about standards.

[00:15:33] It's not about necessarily being a perfectionist. So now if you're a perfectionist, Ambri, you can take that and just come up with standards, the two of you, that you agree with, and that that's the way, that's the standard that... It's like Starbucks has their green apron policy or manual. It's a green apron manifesto.

[00:15:51] Every employee gets it. This is how a Starbucks employee shows up. This is what they wear. This is how they... This is how you serve the drinks. If it's less than that, it's not that, "Oh, you're a perfectionist," it's that, "This is our standard." Anything less than that is not up to the Starbucks standard, and the client, the customer, can complain and get a, get...

[00:16:08] And it's up to the employee to determine, you know, "I can give them a free drink." If they're... If you're in line longer than five minutes or something like that, or whatever, 10 minutes or whatever, or waiting for your drink longer than normal. They, they used to be able to give out vouchers for free drinks.

[00:16:22] I don't know if they still do that, but that's the... That's in their policy and procedures. They empower their employees, and that's where the real opportunity is. And on the sales side, you do that, we start to put in policies and procedures, every employee, and then we work with each employee on it. As they get more comfortable with it, they will...

[00:16:40] Their efficiency, the productivity will increase, and the customers will see all of this, and everything will start to increase. They're going to come back more and more because the employ- who, who is communicating with... Who's the sort of the front of the store for the customers? 

[00:16:56] Ambri: So, myself, and then we have two part-time staff.

[00:16:59] Marshall Stern: Okay. And how... They might be watching this video, so talk nicely about them. How are they? 

[00:17:05] Ambri: Well, they're great. They're very good with the customers, and they have really good people and social skills. So, they're young, right? Like, they're young, they're just entering the workforce. So obviously there's, like, little things, little tweaks and little stuff that anyone that's new and entering the workforce has to learn and work on.

[00:17:26] So this is a skill set, right? And it's, and it's now not just about business, but it's also about building up young people and helping them learn and grow. So, it's kind of my job to guide this as well. Right? How do you show up for work? What are you wearing? How is your hair not going to get sliced off in the slicer, right? Like... 

[00:17:46] Marshall Stern: Well, and that's, that... I'm glad you brought that up, because that is obviously...  if we were talking about SOPs, if we were working together and said, "Okay, just what's our first SOP?" Anything around the health and the safety, 100%. 

[00:17:58] Ambri: Yeah. Yes, that's huge.

[00:17:59] Marshall Stern: Number one, right? And it's not, "Oh, Ambri's being a perfectionist again.

[00:18:02] She's doing the perfection thing." No, it's about saving your freaking ass from, like, getting things chopped off. 

[00:18:08] Ambri: Yes. 

[00:18:10] Marshall Stern: Right? I can say ass because it's my podcast. You can say it too if you'd like. But that's where I would start. Anything to do with health and, health and safety, number one. 

[00:18:19] Ambri: Yeah. 

[00:18:20] Marshall Stern: Okay, that's the-

[00:18:21] Chad: We're a butcher, we're a butcher shop after all, so there's lots of sharp things.

[00:18:25] Ambri: Yeah. 

[00:18:25] Marshall Stern: Yes. And not only are you concerned for your, the safety of your employees and yourself, right? One incident, your WCB premiums- 

[00:18:35] Ambri: Yeah... 

[00:18:35] Marshall Stern: Skyrocket. 

[00:18:37] Ambri: Well, not just the – but, like, yeah, one incident could seriously injure someone for the rest of their life. 

[00:18:42] Marshall Stern: Well, yeah, yeah. No, there's that for sure. Like, it could be fatal.

[00:18:44] Like, it could be, like, or whatever. Yeah. No, there's that side of it too. But I'm saying aside from that, which is huge, also, like, just for protecting, like, lawsuits and everything else, you, it, you have to have all that in place. Okay? I mean, I had a sign company for 29 years, and luckily, I only had, I think, two claims, and one of them was a complete stupidity on the employees, if he's watching, I'm sorry, Mike, his part.

[00:19:07] But it was a normal thing, like an Xacto knife slipped, right? That was on him.

[00:19:11] Chad: I put one through the tip of my thumb and cut the tip of my finger-

[00:19:13] Marshall Stern: Okay, don't. No, I can't hear that. I can't hear that. I can't hear that,because I just feel that.

[00:19:18] Chad: But I did that at a sign company doing, making signs.

[00:19:22] Marshall Stern: Seriously?

[00:19:23] Chad: Yeah, I was on the bleeding table, and I went to cut through the vinyl, and I took the tip of my finger off.

[00:19:30] Marshall Stern: Okay. Okay. I felt that. Okay. Maybe, did you w- maybe you worked for me. It sounds very familiar. We'll have to have a chat. We'll talk about the sign, sign business later. So, what do you think your next step should be?

[00:19:44] Chad: Well, I feel I agree with Ambri. We got to get procedures and, and everything set up so everybody's on the same page, everything's made the same way, the counter's going to look the same all day long.

[00:19:58] Ambri: And then the other, the other thing is, is, like, when it was one staff member talking to one other staff member, there's a direct line of communication.

[00:20:08] That's very easy to do. But now you have multiple staff members, and now we have to relay information to the people in the back, and there's custom orders, and the process of the ordering system is another thing that I would like to figure out. Like, we have right now a paper ordering system, and that works okay.

[00:20:27] And, you know, we give a slip to the customer. "Here's your order. This is when you want to pick it up. We'll call you," yada, yada, yada. But if a slip of paper were to get lost then could maybe not necessarily be the best ordering system. So what I've also been thinking, is there a better way to keep everyone on the same page as far as when a new staff member comes in the next day to see, okay, this is what's happening, and then the people in the back know what's happening, and maybe it's all linked together.

[00:20:56] Marshall Stern: Right. So, like a paper and online in the cloud or whatever. 

[00:21:00] Ambri: Something, something. 

[00:21:01] Marshall Stern: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 

[00:21:01] Ambri: Is there a better system that- ... where nothing can get lost or missed? 

[00:21:07] Marshall Stern: And that, Ambri, that is a great question to always be using. Is there something better? Always question yourselves, is there something better?

[00:21:15] And the team too, what can we do better? Is there something we can do better, or what can we do better? Okay? 

[00:21:22] Ambri: Yeah. I'm a big believer problems are, but let's try and figure them out and solve them and actually move forward. 

[00:21:28] Marshall Stern: Yeah. So, SOPs for the business and for the team are really, really important.

[00:21:34] Okay? And that, that will also, will help drive increased revenue. It will, because the better the people, the better efficient they are, the better the experience, the customer experience. There's other things we can work together on, like, work together on together, work together on to help increase revenue.

[00:21:54] But one of the first things I would suggest is we need to sit down with the two of you and really figure out the dynamics and how to make this work. Okay. How to optimize... Nothing to do with your past romantic relationship, although that comes into play, but as business partners. I've had a business partner, and I was very fortunate, right?

[00:22:14] But I also grew up with my father and his two brothers in business together, and one of them, or the two of them no longer speaks, spoke to... Well, two of them, the two passed away, no longer speak, spoke to the other one. So that happens all the time. Partnerships break down all the time. So, we have to make sure for the future of the company and for the two of you and your sanity, that you're optimizing your relationship, your partnership, okay?

[00:22:41] And that you have your own SOPs for the two of you. And so, this goes into the, the... with the staff as well. The more they know... Okay, and I'll speak to... So Chad, the more you know exactly what Ambri's roles and responsibilities are, and where she has complete autonomy, for example, and you know what's expected of you and what you're supposed to do, and vice versa, you know what Chad expects of you and what your roles and responsibilities are, same thing with the staff, the, the, the easier and the simpler the business will become.

[00:23:18] And especially young employees, first time in the job market, they – this is a training ground. You guys can be the McDonald's of the sausage industry without going to that extreme. But what I mean by that is - McDonald's trains their people. Like, do you really think these, you know, 16-year-old teenagers are saying to McDonald's, "You guys are perfectionists"?

[00:23:41] No, I don't think they look at McDonald's as perfectionists. These are... Everyone knows it's, they have standards. Are they high standards? I don't know if they're high standards. That's kind of pushing it. They're standards. There's procedures, and it's, it's a simple process. This is what you do, you know, 12 seconds at these stations, this station, 15 seconds here, timed.

[00:24:01] This is what you wear. You come to work without the proper attire, you're back home. And it's not like, "Oh, you're being a perfectionist, Mr. McDonald's manager or Mrs. McDonald's manager." It's like that, that's, that's what's expected, period, okay? And it's good for them. This is part of their development.

[00:24:17] So your roles, you're almost like leadership. You're like what I do. You're in the leadership development role. You, you treat your people, you develop your, these people, these employees, as leaders of their position. You want bbusiness to pick up, people are going to come. They're going to start to come back and back because the, these kids are treating the customers so differently than they probably are now.

[00:24:41] Because they appreciate their, their role so much more, and they know what's expected of them, and there's no... There's accountability, there's no finger-pointing. It's a team environment. 

[00:24:50] Ambri: Yeah. I agree with that. 

[00:24:53] Marshall Stern: Yeah. So, what do we do next? 

[00:24:55] Ambri: Well, I think what you were mentioning about Chad and I almost having, like, it would be like if you hire an employee and you have, like, these are going to be your roles and responsibilities.

[00:25:06] You know, I think that that is a good point. We've never really sat down and discussed, like, what each of our roles and responsibilities are, and I also kind of think in general it's good to play to people's strengths. So I think, you know, things that Chad is really excellent and excels at and enjoys doing are the things that I would first put on his list of roles and responsibility, and then I would do the same for me so that we're both actually doing the things that we like to and enjoy doing first, and then we can, like, break down the rest of the more, like, other menial things that maybe we don't necessarily enjoy. 

[00:25:49] Chad: And one thing that he said when he mentioned that was putting those roles and responsibilities and then giving that person the autonomy to do those things so you're not micromanaging roles that you give them, you have to give them the trust that they're going to do it, do it right, and get it done. 

[00:26:04] Ambri: And to specific standard. 

[00:26:07] Marshall Stern: You - you speaking from, from experience, Chad?

[00:26:10] Chad: Maybe.

[00:26:10] Marshall Stern: It- but it's true. The last thing you, last thing either of you want is the other one- When you have autonomy over something, the other one's saying, "I would have done it differently."

[00:26:20] Just let it go. 

[00:26:21] Ambri: I feel like this is-

[00:26:21] Marshall Stern: Ambri, let go. 

[00:26:22] Ambri: I feel attacked. 

[00:26:24] Marshall Stern: No, but it's, it, it's, it'll be good for both of you. 

[00:26:27] Ambri: Yeah. 

[00:26:28] Marshall Stern: And that might be the perfectionism… I don't know if it's perfectionism or maybe the control. Maybe it's perfectionism. But as long as it's within... What's that?

[00:26:37] Chad: A, little bit of column B there?

[00:26:39] Marshall Stern: A little bit, yeah. But it's all, as long as it's within the standards of, and the expectations of the Vallee sausage.

[00:26:46] Chad: Yes. 

[00:26:46] Ambri: And maybe for myself, maybe I do have to actually put some practice into learning how to let go a bit. Like, maybe that's a skill that I need to work on. 

[00:26:59] Marshall Stern: I'll, we'll work on that.We'll work on that. Just, Chad, leave us. We're, we're, we'll work on that.

[00:27:05] Chad: Fair.

[00:27:06] Marshall Stern: And I'll work on you and other things. But, and, and here's the thing. It's, it's all... There's nothing wrong with either of you. There's nothing wrong with anyone. It's just you want this thing to work. As I say, you're already behind the eight ball in the situation that you're in, so things flare up a lot faster because of the failure of your relationship.

[00:27:26] Ambri: Yeah, for-

[00:27:26] Marshall Stern: But you don't want the... Sorry? 

[00:27:27] Ambri: For example, like yesterday with the bacon, I felt like in a normal relationship, if there wasn't that history there, the bacon thing probably wouldn't have been that big of a deal. Okay. But Chad got defensive, and it was interesting for me because I was like, "Ooh, he just got really defensive real quick."

[00:27:46] And I was like- 

[00:27:47] Chad: And then I left ... 

[00:27:48] Ambri: And I was like, "I'm not even meaning to strike a nerve there." But I was like, I feel like if it wasn't that history there, he maybe wouldn't have gotten so defensive. Because he almost felt like it was an attack, but I don't, I didn't see it as me trying to do that.

[00:28:03] Marshall Stern: But we never do. 

[00:28:04] Ambri: No. 

[00:28:06] Marshall Stern: I get that. I mean, this... If this is being actually published, okay, this’ll be on YouTube as well, and I constantly hear... I'm sorry for my wife and my daughter if they watch this. They're always at, at me, especially my daughter, because she watches these fancy podcasts, these hour-long, hour and a half long episode, like, in a studio and whatever.

[00:28:25] She always says, "Daddy, you've got to do something with your video quality. It's, like, a b- little bit, little bit blurry." I don't... You know, especially when my editor, like, has the, the reels zoom in, it's a little bit... The zoom is not very good for zooming. And it's not very good for video. I've tried other apps, other platforms, and I don't like it as much.

[00:28:43] So I think, because this is Business – Stern Truth Business Unfiltered, it's not about the video, it's about the message, it's about the conversation. About the information. About, about the information. But when they mention it to me, I do get defensive. I say, "It's, it's good. Like, I've tried other things, it's fine."

[00:28:57] Because they don't get it, speaking to you, the two of you. So, but I do, I do get it, and, but when you're coming from the other, like, where there is all this other stuff. So, it is about having those... Understanding ourselves, and sometimes having a third person to pass things by and to discuss things with, and almost at times maybe even mediate.

[00:29:16] Ambri: Yeah. So next time I just have to send one of the staff to tell Chad his bacon is... Just kidding. It's a joke. 

[00:29:23] Marshall Stern: It's a joke, Chad. Relax. Relax, dude. 

[00:29:27] Ambri: I'm kidding. 

[00:29:28] Marshall Stern: When people say, "Relax," okay, that gets me. See, I get –

[00:29:30] Chad: The thing for me is, is, is, is I, I, I understand I'll get heated right away, and then when I walk, leave, and then come back, obviously I understand that that's not what she was trying to do, and it's kind of funny after the fact.

[00:29:44] But, like- right... during the moment... 

[00:29:46] Ambri: And I understand where Chad is coming from too, because he's coming from a place of efficiency, where he's like, "We need to do things fast. We don't need to waste time on things. We don't have a lotta time. Things need to get done quickly." Yeah. "And you don't need to waste time making it look exactly da, da, da, da, da, da, da."

[00:30:04] Marshall Stern: Yeah. 

[00:30:04] Ambri: Where I'm like, I'm like, "No, maybe we should take a little extra time in making it look..." And he is of the, "Let's just get it done." 

[00:30:12] Marshall Stern: Yeah. Well, I... So, Chad, I'm with you on that. I, okay, I, I hear you, brother. So, I'm on that. I'm like... My wife always says, for me, it's good enough, and for her, it's never good enough.

[00:30:22] Ambri: Oh, yeah. Okay, so this is, like, the same dynamic, then. 

[00:30:25] Marshall Stern: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:30:26] Chad: Yeah. Like, in, in our – try it ... private life and in our business life, then it's very much the same.

[00:30:32] Marshall Stern: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I, I hear you, I feel you. I just, I, I, it's... You and I have to have a chat. 

[00:30:40] Ambri: But do you feel like that almost wants, like, in a way, I feel like when you have that standard, it almost pushes individuals like your staff, the people working with you, they have to come to that level.

[00:30:57] So in some cases, they're going to improve, and maybe better themselves in some ways, to get to this point. So, it's not necessarily bad to have a standard. 

[00:31:07] Marshall Stern: No. In fact, you have – we have to have a standard. 

[00:31:10] Ambri: Yeah. 

[00:31:10] Marshall Stern: Okay? And it's not about... And that, that takes everything, like it's good enough, doesn't even come into your vocabulary anymore, Chad, or Ambri.

[00:31:19] Like, it's not good enough, because it's a standard, okay? It, it's not, "That's not good enough." That's the standard, right? That's it. Like, we have to- 

[00:31:27] Ambri: Yeah, this is the way we've decided it's going to be ... 

[00:31:28] Marshall Stern: This is the way, okay. And it has to, you have to come to a, a, a common ground on this, which might be an, an interesting conversation, which we could, we'll discuss later.

[00:31:38] Okay. But also, for your employees, you are both modeling, as you were alluding to, Ambri, you're both modeling the way to show up, the way to do things. So like, as we record this, I don't know if either of you are hockey fans, Canuck fans, but they just totally changed the front office, right?

[00:31:59] Presidents, general manager, they're going to get a new coach. And the one thing with the Sedins, who they brought in as the co-presidents, one, one thing they modeled when they were on the ice back in the day was showing up early, working harder than anyone else. They can still do the Grouse Grind faster than anyone else, any of the current Canucks or future Canucks, and they're, like, in their 40s or whatever they are now.

[00:32:26] And, probably 40s? Yeah, early 40s. They're in better shape than most athletes, and they're - they model it, showing up, staying late, doing the work, putting the work in consistently. They have high standards for themselves. Are they perfectionists? I don't know. Whatever. They have high standards, and they have high standards… They're modeling high standards for every single player in that locker room.

[00:32:49] So they see that they're doing that, they want to raise their standard. But if you have the standards also written out, and everyone understands what the standard is for the company, for every single… The packaging, for the way they show up, the way they treat a customer, every… In the SOPs, all of it, then, and it's continually reviewed and talked about, things will become more, so much more simpler, and there'll be less emotion.

[00:33:13] Because it's not about, for Chad, "Oh, Ambri's mad at me again. What did I do?" It's that, yeah, it's not to the certain standard of the company. And I'm sure there's things that Ambri does that might not be to Chad's standard in certain way, areas. But if we can come to agreement on all of these, that’s… 

[00:33:34] Ambri: Yeah, so Chad's...

[00:33:35] We'll just, we'll just throw it out there, what Chad's issue is with me, I feel – 

[00:33:39] Marshall Stern: That's why this is Business Therapy. Okay. 

[00:33:42] Ambri: So, I would say, now this is just this feeling that I have, Chad thinks that I take way too long to make decisions, and that I flip and flop back and forth between things too much. So, I'll be like, "Yes, no, yes, no," and then I don't decide, don't decide, don't make a move, don't make a move.

[00:34:04] And he's like, "You've just wasted so much time trying to figure it out that we could have already decided and moved forward with something." Like, anything, just... And to him, this is incredibly frustrating because he feels like he's just waiting for this, like, sense of approval, and he's just like, "Oh, and then she's changed her mind again, and she doesn't know what she wants," and, and, and –

[00:34:27] And for me, I see where he's coming from and I, like, understand his frustration, and then I also have started analyzing this and I'm like, "Why am I doing this? What is it that I'm so afraid of in just being able to make these decisions more quickly? Like, why is it taking so long, and why am I doing this back and forth?

[00:34:49] Like, is it a fear thing?" You know? '

[00:34:52] Chad: Because I generally feel in business decisions have to be made quick, especially in, in the food industry, because it's not like there's three other shops in town that do the same thing as us. There's four other shops on our street that do the same thing, so you have to stay moving forward and ahead of the rest of them.

[00:35:14] Not to mention the other 10 of them that are in town, right? So, for me, these decisions have to be quick, and you have to move on them quick.

[00:35:24] Marshall Stern: Okay. I agree. I agree with both of you, and we can work through that because the one thing I... one thing we have to do - with the business is... Again, it goes back to...

[00:35:36] That, yeah, Chad, you, we do... In business, we have to make decisions when... and – you know, analyzing things forever, like that maybe comes into, for Ambri, that might be more the I got to get it perfect, and that's where the good enough sometimes is good enough, right?  it depends on what it is. When you're in the process of cutting meats and doing whatever, no, it's not good enough.

[00:36:03] There's a standard, and also a safety standard, right?

[00:36:06] Chad: Like, for example, when we were talking about switching our display trays to be able to fit more stuff in our one display cooler. So currently we have, like, a 12-inch tray or whatever, and we were thinking of going down to a six or eight-inch deeper tray so you could fit more stuff.

[00:36:23] And, like me, I'm ready to pull the trigger and buy the trays, and she's like, "Well, it's something we have to, you know, look at and think about." And I'm like- ... to me it makes more sense. We can fit twice the amount of stuff that's in our cooler out there, which is going to be able to sell more. And I'm like, "Well, let's just find where we can get these things and have them in by next week."

[00:36:45] Ambri: Yeah. 

[00:36:46] Chad: And I know for her it's going to be a three-week to a month process to figure out if that's what she wants to do, and I kind of feel like that's

[00:36:55] Ambri: Because I'm always like, "Well, maybe the trays that we have now are good enough. Do we really have to spend the money on new trays?" But – like, do we really need them?

[00:37:02] Like, there's so many factors that I guess I think about. 

[00:37:05] Marshall Stern: So Ambri, I'm curious, is, is that... is, is the, the hesitation on making... allowing Chad to make that decision moving forward, is it just you in your brain analyzing and, and, and you have to process it and you have to do your research? because some people are that way.

[00:37:20] They just got to research, research, research. Or is it more about... Does it go deeper than that, I should say? I'm going to ask. 

[00:37:27] Ambri: So, I think the first thing is I think you're bang on, on the perfectionist thing. I want to get it right. I also think, is this a need or a want? Is this actually going to be useful? Is the current system we have, you know, do we really want to make changes?

[00:37:43] When we've made a bunch of changes, do our customers want to see more changes, or should we just keep things as they are? So, it is difficult for me, because I think I'm... My brain thinks of every aspect and every angle, and then I think that's where the problem lies, is because I'm like, "Well," but then it also, it's hard to say, right?

[00:38:00] Like, it's, it's, it's a, you're taking a chance with every decision. 

[00:38:04] Marshall Stern: Yeah. 

[00:38:06] Ambri: I maybe am more of the perfectionist, play it safe, want to get it right person. 

[00:38:11] Marshall Stern: Yeah. 

[00:38:11] Ambri: And I know lately I've been researching or learning more about the idea that failure or doing the wrong thing isn't a bad thing. Like, we shouldn't view failure or making a bad decision as, "Oh my gosh, this is the end of the world," doom and gloom. And I'm hoping that it's going to make it easier for me to be like, "Hey, if I make this decision and it ends up being total crap, it's going to be okay because we're just going to move on to the next thing." 

[00:38:38] Marshall Stern: Okay.

[00:38:39] Yeah. And yeah, no, and that's really good insights for you. And, and the one thing I would also suggest, like, if we can get the two of you totally, totally clear on each other's duties and responsibilities, and where you have, and going back to that word, the autonomy. So, let's say, for example, Chad is an example.

[00:38:58] Chad is responsible for the displays. Full autonomy on that. Okay? I don't... Just hang on, Ambri. I know you're like, "Ah." Just- ... full, full autonomy on that.  and you'll come to an agreement that if it's going to cost whatever it's going to cost to improve... Or the storefront, let's just say. Let's say it's Chad's thing, okay?

[00:39:16] And let's say the front of the store is Chad, the back of the store is you, Ambri. Okay? For example. So, the front of the store, if there's an investment for the front of the store and if it... He has full autonomy if it's below a certain amount. Anything above that, we need to discuss as a team, leadership team, and vice versa.

[00:39:33] And if it's hiring, same thing. Front of the –  I mean, I assume there's, like, front of the store goes into the back as well or –

[00:39:40] Chad: It's a very small store, so everybody's kind of got to help out where they can, right? Yeah. Like, I mean, our, our butcher that, that makes our sausages, he's a machine, but we're getting to that point now where it's getting busy enough that I feel like he's definitely hitting the top of his production level by himself.

[00:40:02] Marshall Stern: Okay. Okay, so there's a lot of work to do, and it doesn't... And before we go, here's the thing. So, there's work on the marketing. We could, we could have more... We could talk further about that down the road, right? There's things we can do with the marketing, with promotions, bringing people into the store.

[00:40:17] I would... Seriously, don't stop what you're doing if you're currently doing something, like posting and whatnot, but I think the next step is getting these... First, the two of you. Spend some time with the two of you, getting SOPs in place. But first, the, the partnership agreement, the leadership roles and responsibilities, and getting that clear, and then working on the SOPs, starting with the most important ones, prioritizing the safety, the health and safety ones first, and then moving down the road.

[00:40:46] Because it, it'll take a while. There's a ton that needs to be done, okay? But you just do the most important ones. And it doesn't... And, with, with AI, like ChatGPT or Claude or whatever, it's so, so much easier now to just get started. You're not going to just cut and paste. You have to go through it, right? But also communicating with the team and getting their feedback on some of them, right?

[00:41:08] And having a sort of, like, just... So, there's the stand- standard operating procedures, which is the operating procedures, but then there's the standards, which is something else. This is the standards that we all adhere to, right? I think that's probably the next step.

[00:41:24] Ambri: Yeah, I agree.

[00:41:26] Marshall Stern: Chad?

[00:41:26] Chad: Yeah, I'm in agreeance.

[00:41:28] Marshall Stern: Okay. Excellent. Excellent. Okay. So, as we close out the session, you guys stick around for a second afterwards. What is... One of the things I do with my clients is it's all about accountability. So, what can I hold you, the two of you, what can you hold each other to on the accountability side? Action steps.

[00:41:50] It's all about taking action. So, what is the next logical step or steps for the two of you? What are you going to do?

[00:41:56] Chad: I feel like we're going to have to nail down this partnership agreement and roles and responsibilities, and then we're both going to have to really let go of what we've got the other person doing and just try to learn to trust that they're going to do it.

[00:42:11] And, you know, even for me, we're going to have to earn the trust of the other person by doing what we say and say what we do kind of thing, right?

[00:42:20] Marshall Stern: Perfect. Love that. Yeah. Ambri? 

[00:42:23] Ambri: Yeah, I agree with Chad that really looking at the operation, our roles and responsibilities, our staff, the policies and procedures, and working toget- together as a team and setting a standard that we both feel is fair.

[00:42:40] Marshall Stern: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Was this helpful? 

[00:42:45] Ambri: Yeah, I think so. 

[00:42:46] Chad: Yeah, very much so.

[00:42:47] Marshall Stern: I didn't see any tears though. I was trying to... Oh, there, Chad, I was, I was trying to get you to tear up, but no. Like-

[00:42:53] Chad: Maybe one of these episodes that we film you, you might get it out of me, but you're going to have to work a little bit harder.

[00:43:00] Marshall Stern: Okay. Should I, like, show a image of, like, a puppy dog or something? Like, would that work? I don't know. Like...

[00:43:05] Chad: No. No. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm definitely more of the old school soul than that, so...

[00:43:12] Marshall Stern: What's more old school than puppy dogs? Babies and puppy dogs. Like-

[00:43:15] Chad: Well, we were definitely grilled to not show emotions. You got to really prod the bear to get it to...

[00:43:22] Marshall Stern: Oh, I'll work on you. We'll get you there. We'll get you there.

[00:43:25] Chad: I mean, Ambri might not be as hard, if you're just saying.

[00:43:28] Marshall Stern: We'll see about that. All right. Thank you both for stepping into the stage, stepping onto the stage of today's Business Therapy.

[00:43:37] Chad: Well, thanks for having us. It was a lot of fun.

[00:43:40] Marshall Stern: Awesome. I look forward to seeing what you guys do in the future, so hang tight here. For the rest of you, I – if you're still with us, which of course you are, love to hear your comments and feedback. Thank you both. 

[00:43:51] Ambri: Thank you. 

[00:43:52] Marshall Stern: We'll see you guys again next week on another episode of the Stern Truth Business Filtered.

[00:43:56] And if you would like to be a guest in a future Business Therapy podcast episode, reach out to me. All the information is in the show notes. Bye for now. 

[00:44:06] Thank you so much for tuning in to The Stern Truth. If you found today's episode helpful, we would love to hear from you. Please like, share, and leave us a review. Also, if you'd like to be a guest in an upcoming episode or join us in one of our momentum accountability group sessions, simply email me to marshall@marshallstern.net. 

[00:44:26] That's marshall@marshallstern.net. And don't forget to hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode. Until next time, keep pushing forward and leading with confidence.