Ep. 73 The Stern Truth: Business Therapy Thursday with Earl Thomas

It’s another Business Therapy Thursday, and this one might hit home for anyone who has ever second-guessed their pricing. I sit down with Earl Thomas, host of the VOICE POWER podcast, and we have an honest and energizing deep dive into pricing confidence.

 Earl has been podcasting for six seasons, reaching listeners across countless countries and cities. But he came to me with the challenge of feeling confident when it comes time to name his price.

 He and I go over the three things needed for someone to work with you—desire, the ability to pay, and the willingness to pay. If all three aspects aren’t there, they’re not your client.

We also dig into the idea of releasing yourself from the outcome. There’s real power in showing up to a conversation and being focused on service rather than landing the sale. Clarity breeds confidence. When you have clarity on your pricing, your process, your ideal client, and your follow-up plan, the confidence follows.

 Earl even shares a golden nugget of his own, being “passionately confident and confidently passionate.” That's the exact energy that lands clients, builds audiences, and grows businesses. People know passion when they see it.

I also get into when to bring up pricing. Talking about it too early, before you’ve made a real connection, turns everything into a negotiation. In small business, the relationship has to be the priority. The price is just a detail that comes after.

Connect with Earl Thomas, aka “The Voice” here:

Website: www.earlthomasthevoice.com
Podcast: voicepower.buzzsprout.com
LinkedIn: @earlthomasthevoice
Facebook: @EarlThomasTheVoice
YouTube: @EarlThomasTheVOICE

 
If you’re interested in a Business Therapy Thursday session, shoot me an email to marshall@marshallstern.net.  

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Join my Business Inner Circle Community for free here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thebusinessinnercirclegroup

Book your complimentary business blindspot assessment with me here: https://attractwell.com/MarshallStern/landing/breakthrough-session

I encourage you to reach out with feedback, topic suggestions, and share your own entrepreneurial challenges.

Get in touch in the comments or head to...
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Email: marshall@marshallstern.net

Transcript

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[00:00:00] Marshall Stern: All right everyone. Welcome back to another Business Therapy Thursday special episode. We do this once a month, so I want you to sit back, be ready for the deep insights and takeaways from our conversation that we have today. This is a deep dive coaching session, and you know we are all alone as business owners, as entrepreneurs.

[00:00:23] Sometimes we just need a sounding board. Sometimes we need someone to talk through things with. That's what these Business Therapy Thursday sessions are for. And if you would like to have one of these, send me an email to marshall@marshallstern.net. Information's in the show notes, but that's it, marshall@marshallstern.net.  

[00:00:44] We can get on, we can have our deep dive business therapy session. If you're good with it being published as a podcast episode like this is today, great. If not, we can simply delete it and you can just have those deep insights. Anyways on with the show. Get ready and enjoy.

[00:01:06] Hi, I'm Marshall Stern and I've spent over 35 years leading and growing multiple small businesses. I know firsthand the struggles of entrepreneurship, feeling isolated, lonely, overwhelmed, and feeling like you have to do it all by yourself. I've been through multiple recessions, and I have felt the highs and the lows.

[00:01:25] 've been there, and I get it. This podcast is here to change that. Every week I will bring you straight talking advice, real world strategies, and honest conversations about what it takes to succeed in business without the fluff, the gimmicks, or the sugar-coated. If you're ready to stop spinning your wheels and start making real progress, then you are in the right place.

[00:01:49] This is the Stern Truth. 

[00:01:53] Welcome back, everyone to another Business Therapy Thursday episode here on the Stern Truth Business Unfiltered. And we have on whatever side you're looking right, my right, my left the amazing, Earl Thomas, the Voice. Earl, how are you today? 

[00:02:09] Earl Thomas: Very well. Thanks for having me, Marshall. 

[00:02:13] Marshall Stern: It's always a pleasure spending time with you.

[00:02:16] So Earl, 

[00:02:17] Earl Thomas: My also, yes, I, I enjoy your wisdom and business and it's good to be with you. 

[00:02:23] Marshall Stern: Oh, thank you. Thank you. Okay. Compliments aside, here we go. Just for context before we get into the actual Business Therapy part of today's conversation, tell us a little bit about what you do. 

[00:02:38] Earl Thomas: I'm a podcast host of VOICE POWER.

[00:02:41] It's a worldwide outreach and that outreach keeps growing from countries and territories to cities. I love to promote businesses who are really serious about their business, and they want an in-depth conversation. I love preparing. I love getting those questions. And of course there's always secondary questions.

[00:03:03] And I'm, I am listening very strongly for those secondary questions. I plant them in the back of my mind. I don't write them down. I just stay really focused and, yeah, I, I have a passion for podcasting. 

[00:03:18] Marshall Stern: Yes. Well, you have a, a passion and a voice for podcasting, that's for sure. Thank you. Okay, so in the time we have today, what would make this a really, really powerful conversation for you?

[00:03:30] Earl Thomas: Learning more about how to be confident about when I bring up pricing in my pre-interviews, because that is the most challenging part. And I think it's slowly coming. It's been quite a money journey ever since that first guest in a pre-interview at Starbucks said to me, Earl, I'm going to pay you for this because I know the work in detail you put into it.

[00:03:56] That was back in 2022, and it just grew from there because of Momentum. Momentum and accountability. Yeah. 

[00:04:04] Marshall Stern: Are you referring to the Momentum group? 

[00:04:06] Earl Thomas: That's right. 

[00:04:07] Marshall Stern: Okay. 

[00:04:07] Earl Thomas: Yes, because the accountability I, I never had a problem with figuring out what I wanted to be accountable for, because it was totally related to the business.

[00:04:15] I wasn't filling time. I just knew that this would help me. Yes. 

[00:04:19] Marshall Stern: Well, no, I'm glad and I know, I know you've been in momentum for a couple years now, and now we've transitioned into the ONtrepreneur Inner Circle. And we've talked about pricing from time to time, but I'm curious for, for today, at this point in your journey, your podcasting journey.

[00:04:38] Because a lot of, here's the thing, a lot of – obviously a lot of podcasts, podcasters don't charge. I know it's becoming more of a thing where people are starting to charge. What, where does the – I know you said it's getting better, the confidence in pricing, but why do you think it's not quite there?

[00:04:56] Where do you think the gap is? What are you not confident about? 

[00:05:01] Earl Thomas: Well, I, I have a few experiences where people say yes. And then less than 24 hours when I come out of the Momentum Accountability, I get this long, very long LinkedIn message says, well, you know, I wasn't sure what to say when we were talking about pricing, and yet I gave him a lot of room.

[00:05:19] I wanted to confirm that you're okay with this. And I can't be – I'm not in control of what other peoples think and feel, and what guests feel. 

[00:05:28] Marshall Stern: Yeah. 

[00:05:28] Earl Thomas: Yeah. I've had a couple of experiences where people weren't forthright with me. 

[00:05:34] Marshall Stern: Hmm. Okay. So, do you think it's, do you think there's a, do you think something's broken on the pre-interview?

[00:05:42] Is that where you're talking about that the, there's disconnect maybe on the pre-interview?

[00:05:46] Earl Thomas: I, I don't think anything's broken there. It's just a matter of confidence and trusting the other person. When they say yes, they mean yes. And when they say no, they mean no. They always know this, that when I'm talking about podcasting, they always feel my passion.

[00:06:01] They – and I try to stay connected with them because they don't want to burn any bridges. Because you never know. They may come back and they may realize, they may see who I'm getting on my podcast because I'm getting some really good guests. Like, you know, Paula who researched and spoke about the American women winning the right to vote.

[00:06:21] And she's amazing. 

[00:06:24] Marshall Stern: But Earl here, here's the thing, and, and this is for anybody who ends up watching this, right? It's about, when it comes to pricing, we have to make it, how do I say, how do, how do I say this? Not everyone, and I, you, I know you know this, not everyone will be an ideal client for your podcast.

[00:06:42] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:06:42] Marshall Stern: Not everyone will be willing to pay for it. So, I always say there has to be three things for someone to work with us in the service, in the service industry. Okay. Really any product, anything, there has to be the need. Okay? For whatever we're doing, there has to be a desire. Okay. So, like it's the need, the desire that's kind of one in the same.

[00:07:06] Okay. So we'll call it just desire. We'll say a desire. A desire for something. because desire is powerful. There has to be the ability to pay. Okay. So, they have to have the financial resources, whatever the amount is, right? I mean, you could be living in a, give an example. Small little house.

[00:07:26] It's supposed to be a very hot summer or an apartment. You have a very hot summer this year and you say, okay, I'm going to get air conditioning. And you find out it's an apartment, it's going to cost a fortune because it's, there's no ducts or whatever it is. And it's going to cost me $20,000 for air conditioning in my tiny little apartment, which I don't have that money for.

[00:07:42] Probably not the best example, but there has to be the ability to pay. Okay. So desire, oh God, I need, I need air conditioning, central air conditioning, whatever it would be called, right? Then we have to put in, actually, what are they called? Ductless in our, in our home, because we have like, radiant, radiant heating, so there's no ducts, right?

[00:07:59] So it's a ductless system, so it's, you pay a lot more, but not everyone has the ability to pay. Or finance or whatever you have to do, but the desire's there. Okay, so desire and ability. And the third one is the willingness to pay. And if you don't have all three, you don't have all three, you probably don't have a client.

[00:08:19] And our job is not to convince them, okay? Our job is to show them and to lead them. If we feel that our job is to serve them, and by serving them, we need to lead them. If we feel like we are serving them powerfully and that this will help them. Then it is our job to lead. This is my belief, it is our job to lead them to the decision to work with us.

[00:08:41] Earl Thomas: Yeah. And, and what I do is, in, in my pre-interview, I, I express how I create my quality podcast and then I go into the pricing and then I do a pause, you know, for questions. You know, is there anything…? 

[00:08:57] Marshall Stern: I'm going to ask, I'm going to push back for a second. Okay? Because we talked about this before. Do you think, I know it's important to you.

[00:09:04] Okay. What do you think is important to your guests? 

[00:09:09] Earl Thomas: It's important that they get good value for what they're paying for, that they get a good reach, that they can get business. So that's why it meant a lot to me when David Allen Stern got back to me and says, thank you, Earl. I got a client from our interview.

[00:09:25] He's a, he's an accent coach from Hollywood. Well, he was in Hollywood for a while. 

[00:09:29] Marshall Stern: Am I related to him? David Allen Stern. I'm related to Dave. 

[00:09:33] Earl Thomas: I don't know. 

[00:09:34] Marshall Stern: Good. Maybe 

[00:09:35] Earl Thomas: You look him up on LinkedIn. He's there. And –  

[00:09:38] Marshall Stern: And just for the record, for anybody watching, I'm not related to Howard Stern, so stop it.

[00:09:43] I'm not related to Howard Stern. There's no relation. 

[00:09:46] Earl Thomas: I never thought of that ever. You know.

[00:09:47] Marshall Stern: Oh, I have a story for that, but I'll do that another time. Although the guy is, like, really, he's a little bit more intelligent than I am. He is like one intelligent dude, very well read. Okay. But anyways, enough with Howard Stern.

[00:10:00] What do they really want? 

[00:10:02] Earl Thomas: Well, they want to feel at ease when they come on. They want to be able to express it really well. That's why sometimes they ask for, can, can you giv me the questions before we go on? And I want them, I want to bring up their brilliance and they'll take away the spontaneity.

[00:10:20] I actually answered that question yesterday and she said, that sounds good, you know? But I've, I've – you know, it's grown over six seasons, so I've added one new part is, I offer them, do you have one or two questions you want me to ask? It's an option. It's up to you. The last, the last one, the, the big picture coach, he didn't send me any questions.

[00:10:42] We had a great conversation. It actually turned into a two-parter. 

[00:10:45] Marshall Stern: I'm going to ask you the question again. 

[00:10:47] Earl Thomas: Okay. 

[00:10:48] Marshall Stern: I want to go deeper with the question. 

[00:10:49] Earl Thomas: Okay. 

[00:10:50] Marshall Stern: Earl, what do they really want? What do they really, really want? Why are you here? Let me ask you this. Why are you on this podcast episode? 

[00:11:00] Earl Thomas: Well, because, because I've increased my business income since 2022, and I feel that getting a hold of this pricing thing, it could turn it to a much higher, higher, higher level that I would go on with confidence.  I would have the timing of when I bring up pricing. I mean, the other day I brought it up sooner and it didn't hurt.

[00:11:24] Marshall Stern: Okay. Okay. But you are tying, here's, and I and I, and I've known you for a while, right? So, we've had this conversation at times, it sounds like you are, correct me if I'm wrong, you are connecting the pricing to the, to your value. 

[00:11:39] Earl Thomas: Well, that sounds correct. Yes. 

[00:11:42] Marshall Stern: Yes. 

[00:11:43] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:11:43] Marshall Stern: To YOUR value, to what you do behind the scenes to your uniqueness and your voice and your editing ability, and the how great the, your, the production of the podcast is, but also connecting it to your value as a person.

[00:12:01] Earl Thomas: Yeah, because I put everything into it. I don't, I don't take any shortcuts. 

[00:12:07] Marshall Stern: This has nothing to do, though, with you. As a person. Okay. 

[00:12:11] Earl Thomas: Right. 

[00:12:11] Marshall Stern: It, the value is what they are getting out of it. 

[00:12:14] Earl Thomas: Yeah. More business. I mean, more focus. More – the, the, the, they're made – the public businesses are made more aware of what they can receive from this business.

[00:12:24] Marshall Stern: Okay. Okay. So, again, more that's what it's all about, right? You've come onto this episode today because you want to get a handle on this pricing confidence. That's the result you want so that you can bring on more guests and grow your podcast. 

[00:12:40] Earl Thomas: Exactly. Because I have 14 in waiting, I want to follow up more.

[00:12:44] Marshall Stern: Okay. 

[00:12:44] Earl Thomas: That I want to take my –

[00:12:45] Marshall Stern: But they don't care. They, they don't care. I, I say this all the time. You've heard me say this before. I say it to my clients. Nobody cares what you do. Nobody cares what I do. Nobody cares that you have a podcast that you spent hours on editing and you're pretty much a perfectionist when it comes to your craft, right?

[00:13:05] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:13:05] Marshall Stern: That, okay. That's you have high standards. Okay. Nobody in the bigger picture, they don't really care. Okay. The video quality might be a little bit, the sound quality. Sound quality is important, obviously, because you have to be able to hear the podcast. They don't really care about all of that.

[00:13:22] They, they want to be able - people to hear it. What they care about is exposure. What they care about is they're getting their message across. They're being seen. They could take those sound clips, those sound bites. They can take that podcast episode, and they can now it's like, it's like, the, the TEDx, right?

[00:13:42] TEDx is coming here in March. Right. And it comes here multiple times, TEDx, TED Talks, whatever it is, and, and people go on that on the stage, not because their ideal client is on the stage or even going to see it right from the actual talk itself. People go on the – I've considered it, people go on the stage because now they have this recording.

[00:14:05] They, they first, they can say they've been on TED, they've been on a TED Talk. And they could take that and use it as credibility and share it with the world. Their message, they can get their message across. That's what people want. That's why people come onto your podcast. It's what's in it for them. 

[00:14:20] Earl Thomas: Yes.

[00:14:21] Marshall Stern: Okay. So, not everyone's going to be an ideal client. Not everyone's going to want to pay to get their message across. So, it's about finding those people who do want to get their message across, and it's important enough to them. Okay. And your podcast has staying power. A lot of podcasts. Don't – you've been around six years, right?

[00:14:40] Six seasons now. 

[00:14:41] Earl Thomas: I'm in my sixth season, that's correct. 

[00:14:43] Marshall Stern: Okay. That's, I don't even know what the stat is, but I know that's a lot longer than most. Okay. My podcast now, we're finishing up our first season, but this is my second go around. I didn't last the first time, like 10 years ago when I did it. 

[00:14:54] Earl Thomas: Oh. Oh, you tried it 10 years ago.

[00:14:57] Marshall Stern: About 10, 10, 11 years ago, I had a podcast. I lasted maybe 20 episodes and just became too much. So, the fact that you've been around for now into your sixth season is, is credible? Quite, it's, it's credible. Okay. And but what does that benefit others? You have a voice. You have a, a strong listening audience and yes, it's a polished okay.

[00:15:21] Podcast, so they could take that. So, that's the, the quality of it, right? It's a quality podcast. They can take that and now they can use it and, and promote and market themselves. 

[00:15:30] Earl Thomas: Yes. And, and I, I can repurpose podcasts and – 

[00:15:34] Marshall Stern: Right. 

[00:15:35] Earl Thomas: It's not, it's not a charge to them. You know, I'll, I'll do that every once in a while.

[00:15:39] Marshall Stern: Right. So going back to the pricing part. Because it's not an astronomical amount that you charge for people to be on the podcast. 

[00:15:52] Okay, you, you – let's back up for a second. You made a comment a few minutes ago, you said, I don't remember what the word you used, you didn't use the word frustrating. I guess it's probably disappointing, but where people, they'll be on the pre-chat, pre podcast, and they'll say yes, and then the next day in LinkedIn, whatever, they put this long thing say, I didn't know how to say whatever, but no, I'm not interested.

[00:16:12] Earl Thomas: Yeah, they don't, they don't want to pay. 

[00:16:14] Marshall Stern: They don't want to pay. They don't want to pay. Okay. And how does that make you feel? 

[00:16:18] Earl Thomas: Well. It's something I learned from the self-employment program. I like the no’s because the no’s get me closer to a yes. Then I get onto somebody else. I mean, at first, at first, that, that one that I, I brought out about, you know, 24 hours later.

[00:16:35] Yeah. It was disappointing. Because I thought, you know, because I, I can visualize how good of an interview that could be. 

[00:16:41] Marshall Stern: Yeah. 

[00:16:42] Earl Thomas: And the, the fact is, I, I love interviewing. I love watching a good interview. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:16:51] Marshall Stern: Okay, so is the confidence that you're looking for in asking for the business, is the confidence in saying the price? 

[00:17:01] Earl Thomas: The, the, the confidence is, it doesn't matter what they say.

[00:17:05] I want, I'm going to deliver it with passion because those who have said no, always observe and make mention of my passion and that, that's my word for your passionately confident and confidently passionate. 

[00:17:19] Marshall Stern: I'm, I'm kind of giggling because, first of all, you say that so well, like, that's like, it's powerful, right?

[00:17:25] Yeah. It's very powerful. You should be a podcast host. 

[00:17:31] Earl Thomas: I am! Of VOICE POWER! 

[00:17:32] Marshall Stern: Of VOICE POWER. You are, of VOICE POWER. Okay. Which we're going to put in the show notes. I want people to check it out. So, so, you're saying you want to be confident about the outcome one way or another? 

[00:17:43] Earl Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:17:48] Marshall Stern: Okay. 

[00:17:48] Earl Thomas: And I've had more yes’s really, you know, since that one that that happened and the other one earlier. 

[00:17:54] Marshall Stern: Right. But it's like what we've talked about in Momentum. We've talked about it in the premier Kickstart Growth Lab, which you were recently in. We're going to be talking about in the Inner Circles.

[00:18:03] We move forward. We have to release ourselves. It's not easy. Trust me. I get it. We need to release ourselves from the outcome. 

[00:18:13] Earl Thomas: I knew you were going to say that. 

[00:18:15] Marshall Stern: Yeah. Okay. But it's hard because especially, well, there's two parts. There's some people who are tied to the outcome because they need the money.

[00:18:24] I need that money. I need that client, I need that enrollment. Okay. And, and if that's you or if there're people out there that are, that are watching this, if that's them, I'm saying stop it. Because when we feel that way, and I know this from experience, okay. We show up differently. We're not showing up serving, we're showing up in scarcity mode.

[00:18:46] People feel it and it's how we respond and how, what our actions are. And that's actions such as sending them a message. Hey, just checking in. Are you interested? Hey, just checking in this, Hey, just checking in. Hey, did I, do you want to be on? Do you want to pay me? Do you want to work with me? People don't like that.

[00:19:05] Okay. However, however, the question really is if you’re not, the question, the thing is this, the Stern Truth is this. When you put yourself in the mindset that you, before every email, LinkedIn, post message, pre-podcast, you know, chat. I'm going on there, I'm interviewing this person. I'm going to be of service.

[00:19:33] What happens, happens. 

[00:19:34] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:19:35] Marshall Stern: Right. 

[00:19:36] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:19:37] Marshall Stern: And just because, sometimes, it's just a choice. because people have paid you before. 

[00:19:42] Earl Thomas: Yes. 

[00:19:42] Marshall Stern: Okay. So, I don't know if it's a lack of confidence, maybe confidently going in, letting go of the outcome. 

[00:19:50] Earl Thomas: Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:52] Marshall Stern: Okay. Some people need space. Some people just need time. 

[00:19:57] Earl Thomas: Yeah, 

[00:19:57] Marshall Stern: Right.

[00:19:57] Because paying to be on a podcast for many is a new thing. Right. Although I think that's changing. Just like podcasts used to be just all like just the podcast, no ads. Now, you're hearing more and more podcasts with ads because the podcaster wants to make revenue from it. Okay? So, for you, this is your business model, but instead of doing ads, you're charging people to be on your podcast because it's a quality podcast.

[00:20:22] But it's a quality podcast. It's the reach. Okay. They're getting really good reach. And I don't know how many countries you're in. I'm not, I'm in maybe, I don't know, 10 countries. You're in like a lot more countries than I am. Okay. You have a lot more listeners, obviously six years you can have, right. You have that credibility.

[00:20:38] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:20:38] Marshall Stern: Okay. But you can only do, control what you, the action steps that you take. Okay. And as long as you, even if it's like just a checklist, did I – because you have a, I know you have a checklist, you have all this stuff. You're very organized, even if you have a checklist. Did I, did – you, you rate yourself after.

[00:20:57] Did I show up and serve? Did I listen intentionally and deeply? Of course you did. Did I show passion? Of course. Right? Just all, whatever those are for you. Did I show up confidently? Okay. Because passion can breed confidence. Other people feel it. Okay, but what are you not – what are you not confident about?

[00:21:24] I'm going to ask that question again. 

[00:21:25] Earl Thomas: Well, I, you know, I can't be confident of what they're going to say. 

[00:21:30] Marshall Stern: No.

[00:21:30] Earl Thomas: Because I can't control what they're going to say. And, by the way, I can send you later the number of countries than the number of cities. It's just, you know, it's just not on the top of my head. Right.

[00:21:39] Marshall Stern: Right. No, no. I know you're doing a lot. I know you're doing a lot, but no, you can. Right. I'll come – we talk about that, right. Process goals versus outcome goals. We have no control over the outcome. 

[00:21:48] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:21:48] Marshall Stern: Full control. We have some control. Continue though. 

[00:21:52] Earl Thomas: But I feel really confident. I mean, I've got this one coming up on Monday, and I, I prepared myself for it because I put a little, you know, it's always the question of, yeah, I make the, I make the connection and then I bring up the pricing.

[00:22:05] Marshall Stern: Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:05] Earl Thomas: When do I bring it up? I don't usually bring it up at the beginning. But I got a, a response for the, the sound clip, and I looked, it sounded like she was on his network. 

[00:22:18] Marshall Stern: Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:18] Earl Thomas: And I, so I thanked her and I said, are you interested in promoting your business with an in-depth conversation?

[00:22:24] And she came back with a yes. And she set it up with her supervisor and they asked, what do you need? What, what can, what can you tell us that we can be, so we can be fully prepared? And I included, and I'll go into the tier two pricing in detail with you. 

[00:22:40] Marshall Stern: Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:41] Earl Thomas: She requested a Zoom invite and I did it.

[00:22:44] And she said, thank you. We're looking forward to being with you. So, with that one, I've got more confidence, I think, because she didn't say, oh, we're not going to pay. It's been brought up. 

[00:22:56] Marshall Stern: But now you're saying there's confidence, like when people say no, that that sort of breaks your confidence. 

[00:23:01] Earl Thomas: Well, I'm onto my next, I mean. 

[00:23:04] Marshall Stern: Yeah.

[00:23:04] Earl Thomas: I have people listening who are saying, well, consider this person. Actually, I had agencies contacting me and I didn't realize I had to treat them differently. They're wanting to talk about pricing right away, and I didn't realize they were an agency. So, with my mentor, I would, I, I did a, a one-on-one and, and got that down for, okay, good.

[00:23:24] Should an agency approach me? 

[00:23:27] Marshall Stern: Okay, good. But here, here's, here's the thing. Maybe it's no longer - I mean, maybe you're showing up. Correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe you're showing up trying to land these clients. These, these guests. Okay. Someone's going to reach out. Maybe it's on LinkedIn, because I know you're very, you're active on LinkedIn and you get a connection and it's like, Hey, hey, I have this podcast.

[00:23:52] Would you be interested in promoting your business on the podcast? Let's have a chat. You get into a pre-chat, right? And you're trying to land them as a guest. 

[00:23:59] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:24:00] Marshall Stern: Does that sound about right? 

[00:24:01] Earl Thomas: That, that sounds correct. 

[00:24:03] Marshall Stern: Okay. Maybe stop doing that. 

[00:24:05] Earl Thomas: I, I don't understand. Because there's, there's got to be, what am I, stop doing?

[00:24:10] Marshall Stern: Everything you're doing is right. Okay. A hundred percent. Keep doing all that. 

[00:24:14] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:24:14] Marshall Stern: But stop trying to land them as a guest. 

[00:24:16] Earl Thomas: Well, then they take that out of my mindset. Yeah. 

[00:24:19] Marshall Stern: You are interviewing people to see if they are a fit for your podcast. 

[00:24:23] Earl Thomas: That's right. And I have a three-step fit, you know? When we get past the pricing, there's, there's three steps that they need to do.

[00:24:29] Marshall Stern: Yeah. Maybe pricing should be a bigger step. 

[00:24:32] Earl Thomas: Pricing is in that, those three steps. Because there's a 20% non-refundable fee that they need to pay. 

[00:24:39] Marshall Stern: Okay. So, some people, if you – it's about connecting with people – look, here's the thing. The first time around, and I said this, I think the other day. 

[00:24:49] It used to take, like, what, seven, seven touches, right? To get clients. Or customers or whatever. Nowadays with all the noise out there and digital media, digital marketing, all this stuff, it's more like probably 15. 

[00:25:02] Earl Thomas: Wow. 

[00:25:03] Marshall Stern: Like, it's a lot more, I don't know what the stat is now, or 12 or something. It's a lot more touches people need to see.

[00:25:09] Okay. I remember, I remember Tony Robbins back in the nineties. I don't know if you, you remember those info infomercials he used to have? Okay. 

[00:25:15] Earl Thomas: Yes. 

[00:25:16] Marshall Stern: I, I watched Personal Power, his like midnight infomercial, whatever channel it was PBS, non PBS or something.  Probably 20 times, 20, 30 times until I bought it, it was $99.

[00:25:29] Which to me, back then in, you know, going in, in university or college was a lot, but it took me 28 times or whatever to say, okay, I'm there. I'm ready. I don't know what kind of day it was I had at school or whatever at, at college. But I was in the moment, like I was in the, I was ripe for the pickings.

[00:25:48] I was ready. Okay. But I'd seen it before. So, I brought, pulled up my credit card, went to the 1-800 number, and I ordered it, and it was at that point, the best purchase I'd made in a long time. Okay. I still have the cassette, the cassette tape set in my closet, right? I can't play because I have no cassette tape anywhere.

[00:26:07] But the point is it takes time and the confidence part of it. Okay? If you come from a place, and I know your place of, of service, but if you truly tap into that place of service and of curiosity and just connecting with people. Because you are a connector, asking the questions, seeing if they are a fit for you.

[00:26:27] Okay. And filtering out those who are not a fit part of the fit, though, Earl, is ability and willingness to pay. 

[00:26:36] Earl Thomas: Yes. Yeah. 

[00:26:38] Marshall Stern: Okay. A lot of these people – look, it's not a lot of money. Most of these people have the ability, we're not talking thousands of dollars to be a guest. 

[00:26:46] Earl Thomas: That's correct. 

[00:26:47] Marshall Stern: You know, a few hundred dollars or whatever.

[00:26:49] How much is it if, if I want to be a guest in your podcast? 

[00:26:52] Earl Thomas: Well, it's a two-tier. Okay. The first tier is $250, the second tier is $345. 

[00:26:59] Marshall Stern: So, it's not a lot of money. So, most people have that ability. If they have a message, a message that they want out there, they want to grow their audience. They want to come across as a thought leader, an expert, or whatever it is, or help change the world.

[00:27:11] That's not a lot, a huge investment to do that. 

[00:27:13] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:27:14] Marshall Stern: Okay. 

[00:27:15] Earl Thomas: Unless it's a cross promotion, then I'm a guest on their podcast and they guest on mine. And there's no cost. 

[00:27:21] Marshall Stern: Okay. But is there any confidence issue on that? 

[00:27:24] Earl Thomas: Oh, no. No. 

[00:27:26] Marshall Stern: Why? 

[00:27:26] Earl Thomas: Well, there's no pressure to, to land it in. Yeah. 

[00:27:29] Marshall Stern: What, what if they, what if you want to be a guest on their podcast and then you meet, have an interview with them, and they don't think you're a fit for, for theirs?

[00:27:38] Earl Thomas: Well, what we do at, at the end of the pre-interview, we book, we, we book both of those interviews. 

[00:27:44] Marshall Stern: Okay. So, always – okay. 

[00:27:46] Earl Thomas: There's no three step process there, 

[00:27:48] Marshall Stern: So, no money is being exchanged so it's easy. Yeah. 

[00:27:52] Earl Thomas: Yeah, we just make sure we got our, our intros, our bio, our bio attempts, we have our sound check, we check, make sure sound is, is good.

[00:27:59] Marshall Stern: Yeah. Okay. So, the confidence is coming from the yes’s. 

[00:28:04] Earl Thomas: Yeah. Because I'm, I'm getting a lot of them. 

[00:28:07] Marshall Stern: No, but the, sorry, the  - sorry, let me back. Reframe that. You're getting confidence from yes’s. 

[00:28:12] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:28:13] Marshall Stern: Sounds like, for sure we all, do, right? Oh yeah. Okay, great. Because you're doing what you love, but it sounds like your confidence –

[00:28:20] So, it's like, the, I don't know if you, whatever your cell phone, right. Your, your, okay. We've talked about this before. Your, your MacBook charger charging, right? The battery. It sounds like the battery is going up, the confidence is going up, up, up, up, up. When they say, yes, yes, yes. No, I'm not interested anymore.

[00:28:36] I'm not interested. I'm not interested. I'm not interested, and the confidence goes down. Does that sound right? 

[00:28:41] Earl Thomas: Well, yes and no. Because then I'm on to the next person. You know, I, I keep, I keep records of who I've in contact with and, and I, I've got quite a few to, to get, follow up to who's shown some interest.

[00:28:54] So, I'm going to be gradually getting those followed up. And I know that I have one on Monday so I've had the best start of any podcast year this January. And I, and I know I can continue it. 

[00:29:10] Marshall Stern: So that's confidence. 

[00:29:11] Earl Thomas: Yes, yes. 

[00:29:12] Marshall Stern: You are confident. 

[00:29:13] Earl Thomas: Yes. 

[00:29:14] Marshall Stern: What takes away, what depletes that confidence? 

[00:29:18] Earl Thomas:  I don't think anything can, I don't think a no does let, let's just say for instance, well, they just decide they're, well, we have to come back and think about it.

[00:29:29] I mean, because I don't know what they're going to say, but, but they know there's pricing involved, so. 

[00:29:36] I got a strong feeling that they're going to go for it. 

[00:29:40] Marshall Stern: So, where's the issue on pricing? 

[00:29:42] Earl Thomas: Well, it's like I, I built up this momentum And being, with, being in Momentum and yeah, I, I don't know.

[00:29:52] I guess it's – if I, if I, if I got five no’s in a row, that would, would hurt the confidence. And maybe I can approach it differently. You know, if they say no. Well, what's the issue with, with money? We know it takes money to, to create business. 

[00:30:12] You, you can't just get things for free. You walk into a store, don't I get this for free?

[00:30:17] Marshall Stern: Yeah. 

[00:30:18] Earl Thomas: I mean, clients don't do that when they walk into stores, they expect to pay. 

[00:30:22] Marshall Stern: Yeah. 

[00:30:24] Earl Thomas: I guess I am creating the expectation of, of wanting to pay. Yeah. 

[00:30:31] Marshall Stern: Okay. But what if I said to you, I don't think you have a pricing issue, like a pricing confidence issue? 

[00:30:38] Earl Thomas: No, I think – 

[00:30:31] Marshall Stern: I think it's, I think it's something that I, I guess it goes back to the question at the beginning as this whole conversation goes full circle.

[00:30:46] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:30:47] Marshall Stern: What, I'm going to ask the question again. What would have, as we are winding down, what would have made, what would you have liked? What would you like still to come out of this session? 

[00:30:58] Earl Thomas: Well, I think I'm already coming out of this session with it. I'm feeling more confidence because of what we're talking about in depth, plus how I did the other day with following up.

[00:31:09] And when they wanted to know, what can they do to prepare? And I included, we'll go into depth in my two-tier pricing system. I didn't say, oh, are you willing to pay? No, no. And, and they came back with, thank you, you know, for the, the invite, the, the Zoom invite. So, yeah. I'm, I'm excited to get over to my – eventually, I'm not going to do them all today because I believe that, you know, you need to go slowly.

[00:31:37] And, and methodically and in depth and with service, you know, to the – about, there’s about 14. 

[00:31:44] Marshall Stern: To follow up on.  

[00:31:45] Earl Thomas: To follow up, yes. 

[00:31:46] Marshall Stern: Yeah, so that's where – listen, here, here's the thing. Here's the thing. I just actually had a really good conversation with someone. There'll be a feature episode. We talked about how clarity breeds confidence.

[00:31:58] Okay, so in this case it's, it is. That's just, period. It's true. Okay. Another certain truth, clarity breeds confidence. How? Because getting clarity on, for you, okay, your pricing, which you have clarity, who you want to attract, who you want as a guest, your step, three-step, three-step, the filter, right?

[00:32:17] You have clarity, okay? You have a plan. You have a follow-up plan, so you have clarity on what to do. That's about implementing it. That all breeds the confidence. You keep doing that and you keep being consistent with that, you're going to get some no’s. A hundred percent. You're going to get some yes’s.

[00:32:35] Eventually you might get five no's, but then you get that one yes. It's like the whole look. You might get a hundred no’s. Jack Canfield, right Chicken Soup for the Soul. They got 100 no’s first, first time round with the, with their first book. Publishers, 100 publishers, 100 no’s. And he was in the shower, I don’t know if you ever heard the story in the shower, doing his thing, washing himself, and he was frustrated.

[00:32:59] He was ready to give up. That hundred first response came in, it was a yes, and it became the most successful personal development book franchise in the history. Okay. Right? 

[00:33:12] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:33:13] Marshall Stern: They just kept going, kept putting themselves out there, kept going for no’s, and then they got a yes. 

[00:33:19] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:33:20] Marshall Stern: Okay. So, I believe we talked about Momentum a lot. Momentum breeds confidence. 

[00:33:27] Earl Thomas: Yes. 

[00:33:27] Marshall Stern: Taking action breeds confidence. Having clarity breeds confidence. So just keep doing what you're doing. You get the, no, you said you just move on to the next one. 

[00:33:36] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:33:37] Marshall Stern: Okay. I think we're, I think we're good. Honestly, I, I just, I don't think you have a confidence issue around pricing.

[00:33:45] Your price is the price. 

[00:33:46] Earl Thomas: Well, I, I didn't, I didn't expect to, to hear that, but, I, I'm looking forward to listening to this podcast. 

[00:33:52] Marshall Stern: I do want you to listen to this back because I want you to hear like where we've gone with it. 

[00:33:56] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:33:57] Marshall Stern: I, I was really trying to go deeper with it and say, okay, where is this issue, Earl, with this confidence with pricing and there's no issue.

[00:34:03] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:34:04] Marshall Stern: If you said to me you have an issue bringing up the price, I'll, I'll ask you that. We have, do you have an issue bringing up price? 

[00:34:13] Earl Thomas: Well, I won't on Monday because I've already brought it up. I think I'm going to feel different when I go, you know, I'll describe how I create my quality podcast. Then I'll go into pricing.

[00:34:26] And then I'll do a pause and ask, are there any questions so far. But I'm glad I did that step of when, when they asked for what do we need to prepare? 

[00:34:36] Marshall Stern: Here, here, here's a good example. So we're talking about,  at the time of recording this, we just recently launched the ONtrepreneur Inner Circle. Okay. 

[00:34:46] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:34:47] Marshall Stern: I've been putting it out there on social media messaging like, posts or whatnot in different groups, looking for the right people to join our Inner Circle. 

[00:34:57] Okay. If people are interested, they reach out to me. First thing I say to them, I could say in the post. Okay. But I don't want to say in the post that there, there is a cost.

[00:35:07] Okay. It's not a huge cost. It's a cost to join the Inner Circle. I don't say in the post, and I'll tell you why in a second, and this is for our listeners too. When they reach out to me, say, oh, I'm interested in learning more about the Inner, Inner Circle. First of all, are they, do I even, are, are they fit?

[00:35:21] So, I'll ask them what they do. This is just in text. Okay. 

[00:35:25] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:35:26] Marshall Stern: And because they, they might not be a fit depending on, they might even not have the business of any kind. Right? Usually they do if they're, because that's what this is for. And then I'll say though, okay, I'll send you the link. Just so you know, it is a membership-based group.

[00:35:38] There is a cost to it. There are different membership options. If you're interested, I can send you the link. Now they know there's a cost, they don't know what the cost is. I send them the link. If they're interested in talking further, we can have a chat. If they just say, oh, no, I'm, I'm not interested, then I realize, okay, they don't see the value, or they're not ready, they're not a fit, and you just move on.

[00:36:02] Okay. When you talk about price, and this is a great question. This is for maybe another podcast down the road. I believe, because people ask me this all the time, where should I mention price? Okay. If you mention price too soon to people without connecting with them, now it's about the price. 

[00:36:20] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:36:21] Marshall Stern: When they don't get to know you or they don't get to experience you, now it's all about the price.

[00:36:27] Earl Thomas: That, that was my thing. You see, I, I want to make that strong, good connection before I bring up price and then I bring it up in, in the pre-interview. 

[00:36:36] Marshall Stern: Yeah. 

[00:36:37] Earl Thomas: And then I, and some have often said, well, I, I wish I would've known about that sooner. 

[00:36:42] Marshall Stern: That's fine. Some people won't be, yeah. But then they're, but then they're all about the price.

[00:36:46] Then they don't see the, they don't see the value early. Do you know what I mean? 

[00:36:48] Earl Thomas: That's right. Yeah. 

[00:36:49] Marshall Stern: Okay. So if I get on a discovery call, breakthrough clarity call with a potential client, someone who's looking for guidance, right. I will say to them, they'll, they'll say to me, Yeah, I'd like to know, like, how your packages work and what you do and what you, whatever, and I'll say, okay, well, we'll get to that because, honestly, we might not even be a fit.

[00:37:08] Yes, obviously there's a, there's a cost or an investment, to investment to work with me. 

[00:37:13] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:37:13] Marshall Stern: But there's no point in talking about that right now. I'll get to that afterwards, if you are even still interested. If we are still interested. There's no point going to price right now. Okay. 

[00:37:23] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:37:23] Marshall Stern: And I've had one person in all my years push me on that and say, okay, well I don't want to waste my time. Just tell me the price is. I know right away I don't want to work in that person. 

[00:37:33] Earl Thomas: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:37:35] Marshall Stern: Okay. So, it's not a bait and switch. Someone said to me, aren't you? Isn't a bait and switch? You're kind of – no, it's not. There is a price. Okay. But we're not going to talk about the price because right now, we'll get into it first.

[00:37:48] Let's see, see if it's a fit, and let's see if what I can offer you is a value, and if what you can offer to me is a value because, Earl, in this situation, more than my coaching – well, it's, it's similar in the sense I only want to work with people that are like going that get it, who are coachable, have a vision and want to do what it takes to achieve that vision so that we can work together and then they can shut from the rooftop, Google review or whatever.

[00:38:14] My God, this guy is, like, incredible. Hire him. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. If I can make a transformation and an impact on someone like that to that degree, am I the right person for them? I really want to make a difference. I'm not trying to do that for them, so I get that, but do you know what I mean? I want to serve them so powerfully that they will shout to the rooftop.

[00:38:32] It's the same thing with you. 

[00:38:34] Earl Thomas: Well –

[00:38:35] Marshall Stern: Yeah. Okay. 

[00:38:36] Earl Thomas: I had a guy who wanted to come on my podcast, and I was so busy in that particular month that I made sure, well, I, I will get back to you. It's just so busy. And, and he was good with that. And then when I talked to him, I said, well, how many podcasts have you been on?

[00:38:50] He thought for him, well, about 60. And I thought, in my mind, don't say it, but I thought in my mind, he's not going to want to pay him to be on my podcast. And then a few seconds later, or, or moments, he said, yeah, but I, I paid to be on some. And he turned out to be a wonderful guest. And he paid. And yeah, it was an incredible story and it turned into a two-part story.

[00:39:13] Marshall Stern: Awesome, awesome. 

[00:39:14] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:39:15] Marshall Stern: But, but here's the thing, and before we go, with people paying you to be on your podcast, yes, it's an investment on their part, but it's a huge investment and a huge risk on your part. 

[00:39:25] Earl Thomas: Yes. 

[00:39:26] Marshall Stern: Because your image, your part, VOICE POWER, Earl, is all about a guest. It's this, people, these amazing people.

[00:39:34] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:39:34] Marshall Stern: Just like TED, it's an application process. TED talk that won't take anyone. 

[00:39:38] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:39:39] Marshall Stern: TED talk is very specific. You, you have to send a video in, you have to have whatever the theme is, and it has to be powerful enough because they only bring the best of the best. 

[00:39:50] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:39:51] Marshall Stern: And same thing with VOICE POWER. So, be very selective.

[00:39:55] And that's, I hate to say it's cliche-ish. Stand in your power, VOICE POWER, stand in your power and select the people that you want on your podcast. You are the ones that are interviewing them. 

[00:40:07] Earl Thomas: Yeah. And I, and I know with TED Talks and everything, I wouldn't be a good fit because you got to stand in that.

[00:40:14] I like to move around a bit. Yeah. 

[00:40:17] Marshall Stern: You know? Yeah. You have to stand on that. 

[00:40:18] Earl Thomas: Stage presence. 

[00:40:19] Marshall Stern: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.  Anyways, I hope this was, I hope this was helpful to you. 

[00:40:25] Earl Thomas: Oh, amazingly, yes. Really good. I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm not amazed at it, but it, it, it has been great. Yeah. I'm not surprised. 

[00:40:35] Marshall Stern: Excellent. So just, yeah, so I think we've solved it.

[00:40:38] You don't have a confidence issue with pricing. 

[00:40:40] Earl Thomas: Right. 

[00:40:41] Marshall Stern: Okay. Maybe it was the way you were looking at it. Maybe that was the issue, the, the way you were looking at it was the issue. 

[00:40:46] Earl Thomas: Yeah, and I think I helped it before I came on this podcast by offering the, the - we'll discuss my two tier pricing, to this potential podcast guests that I'm going to have on, on Monday. They, they know what they're coming into.

[00:40:58] Marshall Stern: Yeah. A hundred percent. Perfect. Well, all the best with that one. Of course, release yourself from the outcome. 

[00:41:05] Earl Thomas: Right? 

[00:41:05] Marshall Stern: And I know it's difficult people, my friends, I know you want to work with someone like, especially like on your podcast, oh, I really want this person on the podcast. because I just, I think it would be amazing to have this person.

[00:41:15] I just really want, I really – I've had clients that I've, or prospects that I really wanted to work with because I knew I would wake up every morning so excited to work with them and I could do amazing things with them and their business. That is a dangerous feeling to have. 

[00:41:29] Earl Thomas: Yeah, 

[00:41:29] Marshall Stern: Because it's the actions we, it's how we respond to that.

[00:41:35] Okay. Once, if they say yes and they, you work with them, then show that passion, show that energy.  But they have to be the ones that have to be a hell yes. And they have to be a fit for you. 

[00:41:47] Earl Thomas: Yeah. 

[00:41:47] Marshall Stern: Okay. Alright. Always a pleasure, my friend. 

[00:41:50] Earl Thomas: Thank you. 

[00:41:51] Marshall Stern: Don't go anywhere. Alright everyone. I would love to hear your feedback and do you have any, do you have a confidence issue around pricing, and do you have any feedback for Earl?

[00:42:01] Check out Earl's VOICE POWER. Stuff is in the, the link is in the show notes. You can find Earl on LinkedIn. You can find him everywhere. He is the voice. He's amazing. Highly recommend you check out his podcast and if you want to be on his podcast and you're a fit for it, and you have a message to share, you know where to find him.

[00:42:19] Earl Thomas: dukeearl@shaw.ca, my email address. Earl Thomas the Voice, creating vocal paradise for your exact needs. 

[00:42:28] Marshall Stern: Need I say more? See you all again next week. Bye for now.

[00:42:36] Thank you so much for tuning in to the Stern Truth. If you found today's episode helpful, we would love to hear from you. Please like, share, and leave us a review. Also, if you'd like to be a guest in an upcoming episode or join us in one of our Moment Accountability Group sessions, simply email me to marshall@marshallstern.net. 

[00:42:56] That's marshall@marshallstern.net. And don't forget to hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode. Until next time, keep pushing forward and leading with confidence.