Ep. 56 The Stern Truth: The Power of Failing Forward with Audree McIvor

Audree McIvor went from running a cannabis store to owning a counselling clinic. And this isn’t her first time around the business block - this is her third business, so she has a lot of golden nuggets to share.

She’s quite comfortable with being active, moving from industry to industry (maybe it’s the mom in her). Audree even works part-time at another clinic to make sure she’s growing and learning to make her practice even better.

One business mantra that she understands well is that you will fail but accepting that failure is a big piece of growth. Some people get comfortable being comfortable but that’s where the learning, the growth stops. Failing is part of the growth mindset, whether we like it or not. 

We also get into coming out of your “safety bubble” and how to, essentially, fail forward. That risk that you take, whether it’s a business or a relationship or whatever it is, is a challenge, and Audree emphasizes that it takes patience to sit with that discomfort.

Be realistic about what you want and take time to plan your goals. That planning is an investment in your future self. Have a network to support you for WHEN you fail. These are just a few of the golden nuggets Audree gave us this episode and they are truly golden.

Sometimes, failure is the only option because you step outside of your comfort zone. But let me ask you this - what if you fail forward?

Connect with Audree here:

Website: www.momentouscounselling.ca

Email: audree@momentouscounselling.ca

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Marshall Stern: Hey everyone. Before we get into today's special guest episode, I want to remind you about the ONtrepreneur Inner Circle. That's O-N, ONtrepreneur Inner Circle, which is launching very soon. Trying to run a business, growing a business we know is hard, it's difficult, but when you have the right people in the room, the right people who are supporting you, week in, week out, it can be so much better and we can fast track our results

[00:00:24] Mindset is everything, and sometimes we tend to fall behind. So, if you have a big vision, big goals for 2026 and beyond, reach out to me. Information is in the show notes. And join us in the ONtrepreneur Inner Circle. No, enjoy the show.

[00:00:44] Hi, I'm Marshall Stern and I've spent over 35 years leading and growing multiple small businesses. I know firsthand the struggles of entrepreneurship, feeling isolated, lonely, overwhelmed, and feeling like you have to do it all by yourself. I've been through multiple recessions, and I have felt the highs and the lows.

[00:01:03] I've been there, and I get it. This podcast is here to change that. Every week I will bring you straight talking advice, real world strategies, and honest conversations about what it takes to succeed in business without the fluff, the gimmicks, or the sugar-coated. If you're ready to stop spinning your wheels and start making real progress, then you are in the right place.

[00:01:26] This is The Stern Truth. 

[00:01:31] Alright, welcome back everyone. Another episode of the Stern Truth Business Unfiltered, and I want to introduce you to Audree McIvor. How are you, Audree? 

[00:01:40] Audree McIvor: I'm well, thank you. How are you? 

[00:01:43] Marshall Stern: I'm, I'm doing well, but looking forward to this. So first, for our listeners, just give us a little bit of background story on who Audree is, where you are, what you're currently doing, and then we'll talk about your, a little bit of your journey, what's worked and what hasn't.

[00:01:58] Audree McIvor: Yeah. Well, I am a third time business owner, so I have ran a franchise in the past, a cannabis store, and now I'm in mental health. And so, I own a clinic in Kelowna.  A big part of that obviously involved a lot of growth with learning how to run a business. But I've at this point feel that that part of my life, the business running part is something that I'm quite comfortable with, especially transferring from industry to industry.

[00:02:38] Aside from being a business owner, I like to be outside. I like to be active. And I also have two kids and a husband, so that's kind of my life. 

[00:02:50] Marshall Stern: Nice. How, how old are the kids? 

[00:02:51] Audree McIvor: Seven and 10. 

[00:02:54] Marshall Stern: Okay. Nice. Nice age. Yeah. Nice. How old's the husband?

[00:02:56] No, you don't have to answer that part. Okay. So you, you've done a lot of different things like, and totally different, so. Maybe a – let's go back a bit. So you have a, you have a clinic now, counselling clinic now. 

[00:03:10] Audree McIvor: Yeah. 

[00:03:11] Marshall Stern: How did you get to that from, I guess, was it the, the franchise you had originally?

[00:03:15] Audree McIvor: Franchise was the first one. That was the first one. Cannabis was the second one. Yeah. 

[00:03:19] Marshall Stern: So maybe just through the, like how did you go from owning a franchise, which I've done as well, to now to the cannabis and then now to the mental health space? 

[00:03:30] Audree McIvor: I think it was a lot to do with like stepping stones. I definitely feel that I needed that experience with somebody holding my hand guiding me.

[00:03:39] They have like, the franchise is the one I was with had like structure had, you know, this is where you can buy furniture at a discount. They had like, oh, this is how you do a business plan. So I felt very supported in that process when I needed the support. And that being my first project, I guess that was what I, I required, I didn't know, I didn't have the tools, I didn't have a business background.

[00:04:06] And so getting into that was like, okay, I know how to do the job, which was a teaching. I know how to teach, I know how to guide people, but I didn't know how to do the business side. And so I felt very supportive there.  when we sold that, and that was in Calgary.  Yeah, cannabis obviously very different.

[00:04:27] Regulations were coming into effect in Canada at the time. Paperwork, all of that stuff. But I did a lot of school and so the paperwork, like all of that part wasn't difficult. It was more actually learning about the industry. So I took the approach of like, well, I can, I know how to do the business side.

[00:04:49] I just now need to learn about the different types of cannabis that there is out there and the different ways to, to use the product and all of that. And that was a very like opportunistic situation. You know, legalization happening in Canada, like all these other pieces kind of coming into play where I went, okay, this is the right time to do this.

[00:05:10] But I also knew long-term that that wasn't what I wanted to stay in. Despite it being fun and exciting and that was, there was a lot of growth in that, especially because it was our first business that wasn't local, so we weren't living in the same city where the business was. So figuring out how to do that remote.

[00:05:28] But obviously in this day and age, that wasn't that big of a deal. It was also during COVID, so that was a different challenge in itself, one that I actually don't think would ever happen again, but you know, it was actually deemed an essential service at the time. So that was a part of why I was still allowed to travel.

[00:05:48] So there's a lot going on with cannabis, but what I did notice in that industry is that I got a lot of clients or customers at the time that would come in with, you know, sore body parts or mental health concerns that I really didn't have tools to help them beyond here is a type of weed that will help in the moment.

[00:06:12] And so I knew kind of like long term that that wasn't really the growth I wanted to keep growing. It was more like, okay, that was a good chapter. Definitely still think of cannabis as supportive alongside other things, but not really the answer to every problem.  and so that's where I transitioned.

[00:06:30] We – I started my master's, to finish, because in, in be – to be registered, you need a master's degree. So I, I started that as I transitioned out of the industry. So it was kind of, they were overlapping at the time. And then kind of thought, okay, well now what? Like, I can open my own thing. I can join a practice.

[00:06:52] And so kind of wanting to learn a bit more. I'm doing both. So yes, I am a business owner. We do have a clinic in town, Momentum Counselling, but I do work part-time at another clinic really for growth and learning. And I think throughout this whole journey of one business to the next. The growth piece is very important to me, so making sure that I'm still learning and growing as I go.

[00:07:20] I'm also running a men's group, and it's a structured course and I've done it a bunch of times, and every single time I do this, I learn something and it's the material. Like I've, I've done this material, I've read it so many times, but it's not even just the material that I'm learning from, I'm learning from the other people that in I'm learning from.

[00:07:39] You know, other resources that they bring in, but all the also their stories, right? Like, oh, this dad shared this and this is how they do things. So I think just that growth piece has helped along the way. 

[00:07:50] Marshall Stern: That's awesome. So, you know, I hear about, I hear a lot about like women's groups. I rarely hear about men's groups.

[00:07:57] So is this a spec – I'm just curious, is this a specific,  Theme to the group? Like is it Yeah, it's 

[00:08:04] Audree McIvor: Actually, it's actually mandated counseling. 

[00:08:07] Marshall Stern: Okay. 

[00:08:07] Audree McIvor: And who've committed intimate partner violence. 

[00:08:08] Marshall Stern: Okay. Okay. Yeah. 

[00:08:10] Audree McIvor: So part of their court order is to do this program. 

[00:08:13] Marshall Stern: Okay. 

[00:08:14] Audree McIvor: Or they breach unfortunately, but- 

[00:08:16] Marshall Stern: Okay.

[00:08:17] Audree McIvor: It is honestly one of the most fun groups that we offer, and I like, I do this with my husband, who's also a clinical counselor. And it's. We enjoy it. We, we truly enjoy it. It's not, it's, it's an evening a week. 

[00:08:36] And so we get childcare for that and then it's kind of this idea where him and I go and then we usually do something little after.

[00:08:44] Sometimes it's just grabbing food or something, but it's just kind of our way to hang out while also working. 

[00:08:51] Marshall Stern: Wow. Wow. I hear, I'm hearing a lot of,  nd what you've said so far about growth, really important to you. And it's interesting beause I, you know, I meet a lot of business owners, entrepreneurs and, so I, I know, well stepping back the franchise, great place to start for some people because yeah, they give you the systems, especially if you don't know business, you're not familiar with it.

[00:09:14] It's almost the right franchise. They help with that piece. Right. But growth is, I think the growth mindset is missing from a lot of people. Because a lot of people, especially since the pandemic, what I found, and I run a couple Facebook groups, is a lot of people ended up either being like COVID out of the job, right?

[00:09:32] And they said, okay, I'll just take their marketer or photographer, I'll just do, do my own business. I'll just do my own thing. But they don't have a business side of it. And they're not really sure what to do. They're really good at their skill. Have you always had that growth mindset? 

[00:09:46] Audree McIvor: Probably not. 

[00:09:47] Marshall Stern: Okay. 

[00:09:48] Audree McIvor:  I mean, I think everyone has protectors that show up, so, you know, you get a bad grade in school and it's like, oh, I don't deserve that.

[00:09:55] Right. Or I don't, I – so I think it, it's not, I don't think of it as this, you have it or you don't, but more of like a, how much of it do you have and how much don't you have? I think everyone probably does have it to a certain extent, some growth mindset. Just the idea of leaning into that and recognizing that failure is, is the only option.

[00:10:19] I know sometimes that's saying like failure is not an option, but it's almost the opposite. You will fail and accepting that that is a big piece of your growth is okay. And it's not, it's, it's going, okay, well now that I have failed, what do I do? Do I, do I even count that as a fail? Maybe not. 

[00:10:39] Maybe that, that is part of the growth that is an oops that we can move on from. And what can I learn from this, and when I make this mistake again, because we will – it's not like, we'll, we, we learn and never make that mistake again. Or, you know, there wouldn't be drug addiction or alcohol like that, that, right, like.

[00:10:57] We will make the mistake again. And, and that's okay. It's what do I do with that information and how can I grow from that? And so I think everyone has growth mindset, but also everyone has maybe a part of them that is stubborn and that's okay. 

[00:11:12] Marshall Stern: Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's sort of an idealistic view, which I normally am.

[00:11:17] I don't know if everyone really has a growth mindset. I think some people, and maybe they, yeah, you're right. Maybe to a certain degree, maybe like 5%. 

[00:11:25] Audree McIvor: Right? 

[00:11:25] Marshall Stern: Yeah. But the other 95% is like, no, I'm fine. Just being where I'm at. Like I don't want to grow. Like, and they're, no, I don't think anyone's ever saying, I don't want to grow.

[00:11:34] I just think some people get comfortable being comfortable and don't continue to learn. 

[00:11:40] Audree McIvor: That's fair. Yeah. 

[00:11:41] Marshall Stern: Right. But it is about, the growth mindset is lifelong learning. It is learning, you know, not just, not just business or career, but as a parent. Learning from our oopsies, right. And growing as parents, which is a constant goal.

[00:11:55] Like being a parent, you're constantly learning. 

[00:11:58] Audree McIvor: For sure. Yeah. 

[00:11:58] Marshall Stern: There's no, there's no, I was going to say, I was going to say, there's no book on parenthood. There's many books on parenthood, but there's no book that can prepare you properly for parenthood except for learning on the spot, learning on the job. 

[00:12:11] Audree McIvor: Yeah.

[00:12:11] Marshall Stern: Right. There should be a license that you have to pass to be a parent. I – I think. But in any case, I love that that comment you made, failure is the only option, and I want to hear more about that. 

[00:12:26] Audree McIvor: Yeah, I think I have this idea that if we don't fail, we don't grow because we know it all. And it also.

[00:12:37] So I guess two things happen is we stay in a safe bubble of, well, I know how to do this and I know how to do this properly, and so I won't fail because I already know the formula and how to do this right. So almost this fear of if I step out of here and I fail, then bad things will happen. Or the opposite, kind of like I'm so the, it's almost like there's, there's no opportunity to fail in those safe bubbles.

[00:12:59] And so it's, I think stepping out of our comfort zone and, and trying things, knowing that it, it may not go well. And the way my husband has described this as in marketing, it's like, yeah, Coca-Cola as a company. They always fail in their marketing, and once in a while they get it right and it does really well, but they'll do things that don't go well.

[00:13:26] And so he's explained this to me of like, when we, you know, try marketing things, it's like, oh, that generated zero, literally zero people. Oh, well move on. Now we know not to do it that way. And that's okay. So now, now what can we try? And now what can we try? So I think it's the idea of like is, yeah, I guess on paper that's failure, but it's not really like, I don't even want to use that word.

[00:13:50] I want to, like, retract that sentence of like what that actually is. Because it's not really failure, it's just maybe doing it in a way that's not working yet or now or in the context that we're given. It may have worked for other people and in different ways, but in the context of us. That's not going to help.

[00:14:06] Let's try something new. 

[00:14:08] Marshall Stern: I love that. And that, and that is the growth mindset. And that's the, that's also the, the – a leader's mindset, right? So there's a great book called Failing Forward. So it's all, all along the same lines, the same concept, the same theory. I love how you put it, like the failure is, is the only option because it is stepping outside of our comfort zone.

[00:14:27] And I've been talking about this more and more and, and more about becoming comfortable being uncomfortable. 

[00:14:33] Audree McIvor: Yeah. 

[00:14:34] Marshall Stern: Right. So, and, and learning from our failure and yeah. Is it a failure if you learn from it? That's the question. But it's okay to try and then if it doesn't work, try something. You talk about Coke, like you're probably too young for this.

[00:14:47] You probably weren't even around during it, but New Coke. Did you ever hear the story about New Coke? No. So I don't remember what year it was. It was probably, it might even been the late eighties. Actually, I, I'm trying to think.  Coke decided to come out with – Coke was like number one. They always had the taste test Coke or Pepsi, right.

[00:15:04] Coke was still, I think, pretty much number one Pepsi was up there. But they decided to change it up and they came out with something called New Coke and it was actually called New Coke, and it was disgusting. Totally different formula. Everyone hated it. Huge backlash. And they quickly pivoted. And then they came out with Coke Classic and Coke just took off.

[00:15:26] New Coke slowly went away. So some people thought it was like done on purpose. I don't know if they were that clever to do it on purpose. Because that's a risk to take to like to purposely put out something that's garbage and then bring back the other one. Right. It's like that. It's like, you don't know what you have until you've lost it kind of thing.

[00:15:47] Audree McIvor: Yeah. 

[00:15:48] Marshall Stern: But it did work for them. It was a big failure. And the other one comes to mind, this is even before my time, I think Post-It, the Post-It note, that was a complete fail. So the guy was in the lab, he was trying to come up with a permanent adhesive and it totally failed. It was probably one of the biggest failures in business, in the history of business or history of commerce.

[00:16:09] Right. So, yeah, if we don't try, if we don't try, we will never know. And success comes from like Michael Jordan, I can't remember the quote. You know, how many, how many shots he missed. 

[00:16:26] Audree McIvor: Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:27] Marshall Stern: And they'll talk about the thousands of baskets he missed. They talk about the ones he made. 

[00:16:32] Audree McIvor: Yeah. 

[00:16:32] Marshall Stern: So you have to take the shot.

[00:16:34] What would you say would be one of the biggest challenges that you've faced in your entrepreneurial journey? 

[00:16:42] Audree McIvor: I think starting, there's always a risk going into a business, whatever business it is, and. Projections that we make don't always go according to plan. And things come up like COVID that are unexpected and having to pivot among, especially in early phases when you know, maybe the financial stability isn't there or you know, like that kind of stuff.

[00:17:10] It can be extremely challenging for people. And I think for me, there, in every single one, there was a bit of a panic of like, oh no, what if I made the wrong decision? And this isn't going to, this isn't as good of an idea as I thought it was, or it's not going to go as well as I expected. And, even the last time, like this current business, like opening the doors.

[00:17:34] I had this vision of like, and then the people will come, but it took longer. And when I look back, I'm like, well, that's what happened before. And that's what happened before that. And so it's, it is this pattern of like, you think, you know, you, you walk into a well-established store and you're like, oh, that's what's going to happen.

[00:17:49] It's like, yeah, eventually. But if you, people don't even know you exist, it's not going to happen on day one. 

[00:17:54] Marshall Stern: Yeah. 

[00:17:56] Audree McIvor: And so I think for me, a big part of that is that the patience that is required to sit with very much the discomfort of, okay, I'm, I'm putting my heart and soul into something. And I don't know, there is a lot of unknown of is, is this going to go according to plan or as well as I expect, or whatever.

[00:18:13] Marshall Stern: So it's being comfortable, being uncomfortable. 

[00:18:15] Audree McIvor: Yeah, basically. 

[00:18:16] Marshall Stern: And, and, sorry, continue. 

[00:18:20] Audree McIvor: I was just going to say, and the risk too, right? A lot of people do. It's, it's a lot more risk than otherwise. 

[00:18:26] Marshall Stern: Yeah. Well, entrepreneurship, I mean, anybody who goes on their own we're, we're crazy. Like it's, it's not easy.

[00:18:32] And well, we're not really crazy.  but it's not easy. It really is actually quite difficult. And that's why there's like a gazillion books and podcasts including this one and seminars and webinars and programs on it. Because if it was so easy, everyone would be doing it and everyone would be successful.

[00:18:53] But it does, it does take hard work and determination and grit and resilience and all the, all the other buzzwords. It does. 

[00:19:00] Audree McIvor: Yeah. 

[00:19:00] Marshall Stern: People don't want to hear that though. 

[00:19:02] Audree McIvor: I think a big part, like my learning curve too, was recognizing what I am not super good at or what, where values don't always align. And, and being okay with learning to be okay with that.

[00:19:16] I don't think I was at, at the beginning, but you know, my skills are not going to be the same as everybody that joins the team. And some and commitment level too, right? A lot of the way we hire is part-time, you know, the first business being students, the second being, you know, just most of the people are part-time people.

[00:19:37] And so recognizing, okay, so I'm, I'm getting people who. I have a life outside of this where this is my life. I have no other Bob. I have no other, you know, thing I'm taking care of. This is it. And so when somebody, for example, I'm trying to be like, okay, you, you need to learn how to work with the kids this way.

[00:20:00] This is, this is how you work with the children and then learning, oh, they're not, they maybe, they don't really like working with children and so the values being different of, okay, I, the reason I hired this person initially was for the paperwork, or was for the computer stuff. And so really using the people on the team in a way that aligns with their values, but also their strengths.

[00:20:23] When I learned that that was a better approach, everything got a lot better. Everybody was happier. Everything got a lot easier. Because people are also in the position where they like and they're comfortable. 

[00:20:35] Marshall Stern: Well, what you're talking about, and I want everyone who's, who's watching or listening to. When they're done, go back to this point and listen to this again.

[00:20:43] Beause Audree, what she's saying is so important. What you're talking about is leadership. What you're talking about is being the leader for your company and putting and empowering your team and have, and having them, setting them up for success. 

[00:20:55] Audree McIvor: Yeah. 

[00:20:56] Marshall Stern: Right. 

[00:20:57] Audree McIvor: Yeah. 

[00:20:58] Marshall Stern: And so many people, Audree, like so many business owners get stuck in what I call the employee mindset.

[00:21:07] So they may have worked, let's say, as a counselor or a therapist for another clinic. They decide I'm going to go out on my own, open up my own, hang out, you know, hang up my own, shingle and just, I'm going to do it myself. And then they just find themselves just working with clients, doing client sessions like a coach, even same thing all day long, like 10 sessions a day.

[00:21:29] And well, it wouldn't be 10 sessions a day because they're not doing any business development. So they're not getting clients, they're not doing the marketing, they're not working on the business, they're just focusing on what's right in front of them, which is a, an employee mindset and not building a team.

[00:21:41] So that's really, really important to build a team around you. 

[00:21:45] Audree McIvor: I think a big part of that too is I don't think it's a bad thing if there's other people who are better at me at things. So if we need a photographer, I am not going to do that job. I will get somebody to take the pictures and pay that person because they're better at that.

[00:22:04] And if I need somebody who is going to do the admin stuff, billing and all that, I will find somebody who is good at those, like those tasks, and I think that's a big piece of it. Yes, technically I can do it. Technically I, I can take my phone and take a picture, but it doesn't mean that this is efficient or better.

[00:22:26] And so just figuring out like the whole reason of why a lot of people do go into business ownership is to have freedom and flexibility. And if that becomes the tether, then that's kind of defeating the purpose here. And so it's not, and, and I mean, I think a lot of entrepreneurs do work extremely hard.

[00:22:46] That's not the point is, is, but I think it's, it's the idea of working hard with the people around you who are also going to do their job really well, but it's also finding the people instead of also being the photographer and also being the admin person. I, I mean, I can come in and do my job as a therapist, also do the, the entrepreneurial stuff that's necessary and have that type of successful day instead of all these other million pieces.

[00:23:15] Marshall Stern: Right? And, and, and so again, I, I hope people are listening to this and watching this because, or watching this because, I usually ask my guests to give some golden nuggets and I'll, I'll ask you again, but you're giving golden nuggets right now. You're giving amazing takeaways and insights into how to run a business, how to be a leader of your business.

[00:23:34] I call it the ONtrepreneur with the big ON. Right. And you know, by the time when this is coming out, we're just finishing up a six-week program called The ONtrepreneur 2026 Kickstart Growth Lab. And it's all about setting the vision for 2026. Building a plan and actually building an executable, executable plan and being the entrepreneur of your business and not just the employee, which is someone who just does what's right in front of them and just does the stuff to get through the day, the to-do list.

[00:24:03] But having that vision and surrounding yourself with people who support that vision and who can help you achieve the vision. What would you say being 2026, a new year? What I'm curious for a lot of people right now, it's early 2026, a lot of business owners who are listening to this maybe haven't even, even like, haven't really even planned out their year.

[00:24:31] They just, you know, a lot of people go into the new year, the change of a calendar. All of a sudden they wake up January 1st, everything's going to be different. But we know that's not the case. What do you do, if anything, specifically to ensure that you're on the right path and. Like, do you set goals for the year?

[00:24:47] Do you have a plan? 

[00:24:48] Audree McIvor: I would think of this more as like a proactive approach. And so if we're in 2026, thinking of plans to start in the spring at this point. And what I mean by that is if we're thinking ahead, whatever systems are in place right now are going to continue, it's now going okay, you know. 

[00:25:14] By April I want to have this type of growth, or I want to have this many more people working. Well, in order to do that, you now need to put on it, put an ad out to get somebody to, to hire somebody, and then you need to interview a few people, and then you need to onboard that person that you decide you're going to hire. So even if you decided to today that that's what you want tomorrow, realistically.

[00:25:38] That's not going to happen. So setting yourself, creating goals for the future now makes the most sense. And so if you're waking up in January going, okay, I'm going to start with this more, think of it, let's start in the spring. What, what are my goals for the spring at this point? And look from that lens and I think a big piece of that is it, it does require some foresight and some planning and recognizing too, if you have a team, you're not the only person that needs buy-in, right?

[00:26:10] It's great to say, okay, I'm going to make all these changes, but tomorrow everyone may not decide that those changes make sense. And so there is, there is this kind of like transition period that needs to happen. 

[00:26:20] Marshall Stern: For sure. No, a hundred percent.  And you know, a lot of this it reminds me of, I don't know if you've ever read the book – I talk about, I should get like royalties – WTF?! by Brian Scudamore, 100-GOT-JUNK. Read it, amazing book.

[00:26:33] It's one of my two – I sort of go two or three go-to books for. Business owners, entrepreneurs, in addition to the E-Myth and any John Maxwell book, but, willing to – it's “Willing to Fail,” WTF – but it's willing to fail. And that's really what we're talking about here. And he talks in the book about how he built 1-800-GOT-JUNK, and yes, he's the leader, but he, everything you've said here is what he does.

[00:26:58] And why went under got junk is one of the most successful businesses. Well, it's the most successful junk business, but one of the most successful businesses probably in the world. Because what they did was he had a vision, he calls this painted picture that he did in the early nineties and he brought people on his team who bought into the vision and people who are smarter than him in different areas.

[00:27:21] And he, in some cases, he talks about in the book, failed at, at times. He brought on the wrong people. He wanted to start franchising and he brought on the wrong people and then he found the right person and the right team and they all together built this business out to what it is today and it continues to go strong and it expands.

[00:27:38] So, and now he's on, like, Dragons Den and all that stuff, but, and maybe, probably eventually Shark Tank. Because that seems to be the growth. You're on Dragons Den for a while, and then like Kevin and – so one couple of them went on to the Shark Tank from Dragons Den. But in any case, good. Really good book. So I highly recommend it for everybody, for our listeners and for yourself.

[00:27:56] If you want to read something. It's a really good book. It's about leadership and just vision. Being a visionary, but I like the part of what you said about wake up January 1st. It's about the goal, it's about the vision. So if you want something like April, I know what I work with my clients, and we talked about this in the, in the Growth Lab is the primary focus.

[00:28:15] So having a primary focus and then so which is setting a goal, setting what you want to achieve by a certain time, but then reverse engineering back, what are the then action steps you need to take in order to achieve that? So, but it does take, it does take risk. It does take the, it goes back to that failure.

[00:28:32] It might not work. 

[00:28:33] Audree McIvor: Yeah. 

[00:28:34] Marshall Stern: But it might. 

[00:28:35] Audree McIvor: Well, and it's also the investment too, right? If you're going to implement something and you want it to be done today or tomorrow, that's a, it's so short term that it's probably going to fizzle out. But if you have this idea of, okay, by April I want to achieve this target. And then like you said, coming back to the actionable steps.

[00:28:57] This is now more of a long-term process on how I'm going to get to that goal. So there is this level of commitment that's required, which I could see as a barrier for people, right? This is more effort. I can just keep doing what I'm doing and not achieve that goal. And it's no big deal because it's good enough.

[00:29:15] And so here we are of like, well, is this actually a goal? And this is part of, you know, some with some clients that come in for me, right? Like, don't just make up a goal because we are telling you to make up a goal. If this isn't real for you, if you want to actually achieve this goal, then let's work towards that.

[00:29:32] But a lot of times, I think that's part of what it is. Oh, it's January. I should make a goal right now. Great. But it's not something that they care to do. And that's okay too. Right? It's, but it's now reflecting on that, is that actually a good goal to work towards? 

[00:29:48] Marshall Stern: Right. Yeah, no, a hundred percent. And, and one thing again, we did in the Growth Lab is getting really clear.

[00:29:54] Because a lot of people set goals, right? It's like number, let's say number of therapists. You want number in your practice, how big you want your practice, how many locations or when you had the educational, you know, when you had the, the other company, the franchise, you know, how many locations you want to grow to, and then revenue and income and all that kind of stuff.

[00:30:13] But then it's really, it's fine to set those goals, especially monetary or like a, a numerical goal. But I always talk about like the why behind it. So why is that so important? And if we don't have a connection to the why, we're not going to do the work. We might start and then we'll stop it. We have to have some connection to the why, to the what.

[00:30:34] We have to have a deep why as to what we want to create, because there are going to be days where it's hard. Talk about that all the time. The Stern Truth, right? Especially I say it all the time, right? It's in the winter, fall, winter, and the West Coast, right? The Lower Mainland, at least it's wet, it's dreary.

[00:30:53] I know you said before we got on, you like the rain?

[00:30:55] Audree McIvor: Yeah. 

[00:30:56] Marshall Stern: So you might energize you. For a lot of people, it depresses them and they just, you just don't want to do the thing. But if you're connected and you have a deep, wide, deep desire, it just makes it so much easier to keep going. 

[00:31:10] Audree McIvor: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:31:11] Marshall Stern: And keep failing possibly at times.

[00:31:14] And not being scared of it. And then learning from that and then trying again. 

[00:31:18] Audree McIvor: Yeah, I mean I think there is a sense of that it is scary and even allowing the acceptance that it is scary in, right? Like I think it's almost like don't be scared of it. It's fine. Just get through it. And it is, it is scary and, and just kind of admitting, hey, you know what?

[00:31:34] This is scary and having good people, good resources, like internal resources if you don't have the people kind of thing, but just some sort of network where even when you do fail, even when things go this way or that way, you have the support, whatever that looks like. 

[00:31:51] Marshall Stern: Well that's another okay. People, I hope you have a pad of paper or your phone or something like, because that's another golden nugget.

[00:31:56] It's another takeaway. Support, have people on your team or I always suggest if, if it's not a coach or a mentor, an accountability group or just being in a group of other business owners. And obviously, your significant other is in the business as well, similar business, so it's like you have that support our friends.

[00:32:14] Because a lot of times our friends or a significant, significant other have no idea what we go through. They're, unless they are in business themselves, it could be very, very lonely being a business owner. And I make it sound like horrible. Like it's, it's hard, it's lonely. It could be depressing. No, let me make this clear.

[00:32:30] I think when a lot of people start in their entrepreneurial journey, it's exciting, right? Like, I remember when I started back and I started like yourself as in a franchise. I grew up with entrepreneurial family, but, so I knew some of the ups and downs, but I didn't experience it personally myself for my own business and.

[00:32:47] But when I started it's like everything was exciting. It was my baby and it was like, no problem. I'll work 24/7 because it's, this is my thing. But that gets old fast. And then you start to hit it like, oh, I opened the doors just like you. Right? They gave me all the systems, they gave me. This is right by my furniture.

[00:33:04] This is where I get everything. This is where the computers, we have the buying power. This is what you, this is the list. Go get it. Open the door. Zero customers because I was so focused on opening, I had staff, I had me looking around zero customers. That's when the work started. Had to get out there and hustle and had to, and this was before, so social media, we had dial up internet at the time.

[00:33:29] Right. Yellow Pages was the biggest way to promote yourself. Right. And we were months away from that coming out. So it was just a matter of pounding the pavement and doing the work, which I think at the beginning, a lot of people don't get. 

[00:33:42] Audree McIvor: Yeah. Yeah, think it's doing the work while being supported.

[00:33:47] Because I think, and, and sometimes just sitting in that like this is difficult. I think this is with a lot of these resources and books and things like that, it's just like, oh, then just do it this way. Or here's the other magical way to do it. Like you can sit in the fact that it's difficult and it sucks sometimes.

[00:34:08] And sometimes, you know, like friends and significant others, they're very much trying to help or fix or do it this way, right? Like sometimes it's nice to meet with another business owner to be like, yeah, that, that's hard. That's all. But you don't need more if you don't need advice. You can read the book if you want, but sometimes it's just nice to be like, yeah.

[00:34:28] That's true. 

[00:34:29] Marshall Stern: Well, it's like in, in a way, I don't want to compare it, but it's like similar with therapy, right? Sometimes it's nice to just be heard and have someone say, yeah, I get it. As opposed to try to fix it. I remember with my wife, like the, met her from Mars when we were from Venus. She used to come back from her job back in the day when, when the, before we had kids and when the kids were young and she would just like, this is not going well.

[00:34:51] It was a horrible day. And what, what do I do? I'm, I'm the man, I'm the husband. I got to fix it. I'm the fixer. So I would say, why don't you just quit? Why don't you do this? Why don't you do that? And then I read the book and I was like, no, no, no. That's not what she needs. I understand, dear, what you're going through.

[00:35:07] I didn't say, dear, that's a, my mom would say that. I understand what you're going through. I'm here for you. And just listen. 

[00:35:14] Audree McIvor: Yeah. 

[00:35:15] Marshall Stern: Right. And then I get it. I've been there. That's what people want to hear and sometimes people want answers, like solutions suggestions. You are you part, I'm just curious before we wrap things up.

[00:35:25] Are you part of any kind of business owner? Like, do you network, are you part of any kind of business owner group? 

[00:35:32] Audree McIvor: Yes and sort of –  I'm, I'm more part of like, counseling group.  And I find that to be extremely supportive. I, I don't, I'm not part of like a specific business networking group.

[00:35:45] But I don't, I don't, yeah, I haven't really, I haven't really found one that feels good fully to be in, especially because the industries are different and things like that. So definitely like dabbled into them. Like certain local groups that exist, I'll maybe show up once or twice and just check it out.

[00:36:09] I'm not shy from doing that, but it's not something that I tend to lean towards. 

[00:36:15] Marshall Stern: Right. Right. Okay. But you are, you do have support of other people in your, in your business, in your field 

[00:36:21] Audree McIvor: For sure. Yeah. In in the industry. There's definitely- 

[00:36:23] Marshall Stern: In the industry there. 

[00:36:24] Audree McIvor: There and I think being the industry that it is, like mental health and counseling, it's- 

[00:36:28] Marshall Stern: To support. 

[00:36:29] Audree McIvor: 100% necessary. 

[00:36:30] Marshall Stern: Yeah. 

[00:36:31] Audree McIvor: But also extremely supportive. Like there's ways to network within, like locally, there's two wonderful people who have been putting on kind of like Kelowna specific networking for co-clinical counselors, which really nice.  our team too. We do monthly check-ins. We have kind of like our own group, so it feels like we do have support.

[00:36:55] I also have a supervisor that I lean on, so. There is support,

[00:36:59] Marshall Stern: There is, very nice. Okay, so this has been awesome. There's been so many – so I'm putting you on the spot now, but because you've given so much already, one more golden nugget. So if there was something you could, some wisdom you could, share with us that could help our listeners, what would that be?

[00:37:16] Maybe it's something that you wish you had known then, you know, now, I don't know.

[00:37:26] Audree McIvor: Let me think about this one piece to take away or to give. Oh, I think if I were to say anything, it would be to ask for support. And I mean that so genuinely that it, it's very normal as a business owner to struggle at some point. And it could be super unrelated to the business. It could just be personal stuff going on, whatever that is.

[00:37:50] People are human and they probably get it more than you think. So the idea that rainbows and sunshine is probably not going to happen every single day. That's okay. And so seeking support really for yourself, but also that's going to really help with the wellbeing of the business. And so if you're going to kind of the idea of put your own oxygen mask on before your buddy, right?

[00:38:17] That's kind of the thing. If we're not taking care of ourself, then our business isn't going to do well either. So make sure we're seeking personal support in order to show up for the business. 

[00:38:27] Marshall Stern: I love that. I love that. You know, my, my, my late father used to say,  his is back in the eighties again.

[00:38:34] I'm going back to the eighties a lot today. First New Coke, Classic, Post-It notes, now, my father. He used to go to therapy and he would always call it, he was ahead of his time. First off, he would call it. I'd say, oh, where, where are you off to? And he goes, because I worked for him for a few years.

[00:38:52] And he said, I'm off to my business advisory board or something like that. And I said, really? He goes, yeah, it's my therapist. And he would just go sometimes and just talk to the therapist about what was going on in the business and how he felt in the business. And he got support from that as opposed to sometimes it went deep, obviously, but other times it was just, I just need to talk to someone.

[00:39:12] And back then, business coaches weren't a thing. All these networking groups weren't like that. People didn't talk about their feelings. 

[00:39:19] Audree McIvor: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:39:20] Marshall Stern: Right. So I, I agree. I think it's very important whether it is a coach of some sort or a therapist, like just talk to people or other people get it. 

[00:39:29] Audree McIvor: Even a friend, like anybody, if you have that support, that's helpful.

[00:39:32] Marshall Stern: Yep, yep, yep. Lot of the John Maxwell, lot of the inner circle just support yourself around people who lift you up and support you. And, also part of that is try to limit the people who bring you down the naysayers. And just support yourself, you know, be around supportive people. Okay. This is, wow.

[00:39:52] I don't know where to begin or where to end it because this has been awesome. Thank you so much, Audree. 

[00:39:57] Audree McIvor: Well thanks for having me. 

[00:39:59] Marshall Stern: Definitely going to probably have to have you back at some point in 2026, see how things are going and give you, and have you give us some more gold nuggets because you've shared a lot here with us.

[00:40:08] Audree McIvor: Oh, great. 

[00:40:09] Marshall Stern: So I do appreciate it. So for the rest of you, I just want to hear your thoughts. Don't – I know it's difficult with, if you're watching this on YouTube, you can comment below if you're seeing this on Facebook or Instagram or on the podcast, your favorite podcast platform. Like – review, talk to people about this podcast, share this specific episode because I think, I know this is going to be a value to so many business owners regardless of the stage you're at.

[00:40:35] We talked about everything from investing in yourself and failing, failing forward leadership, growth. It's all good stuff. And, thank you, Audree. 

[00:40:46] Audree McIvor: Awesome. Thank you. 

[00:40:48] Marshall Stern: All right everyone, so go forward, take your notes, tell everyone about this, and we'll see you again next week on another episode of The Turn Truth Business and filtered.

[00:40:57] Bye for now.

[00:41:01] Thank you so much for tuning in to the Stern Truth. If you found today's episode helpful, we would love to hear from you. Please like, share and leave us a review. Also, if you'd like to be a guest in an upcoming episode or join us in one of our Moment Accountability Group sessions, simply email me to marshall@marshallstern.net. 

[00:41:20] That's marshall@marshallstern.net. And don't forget to hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode. Until next time, keep pushing forward and leading with confidence.