Ep. 49 The Stern Truth: Business Hacks with Leslie Hacker

Aside from having one of the coolest names, Leslie Hacker has a keen business sense.

Leslie started her marketing and PR business in 2015 while taking care of her sick parents. She prefers to call herself a consultant and a communicator, since that’s really at the core of what she does.

The episode gets into the idea of being uncomfortable, which, let’s be real, no one really likes. But for Leslie, she knows that when businesses do the same thing over and over, those things eventually won’t work.

We talk over the analogy of putting your oxygen mask on when you’re on an airplane before helping others. One of Leslie’s golden nuggets (which I’m calling Business Hacks for this episode) is that her work is better when she has oxygen.

Leslie told us how she’s noticed that when she works with a company that she’s a customer of herself, that’s when she’s most passionate about the job. For her, that’s when it’s more than just money.

That being said, we also get into being cautious with your passion. It could take you down a dark path. The businesses and clients that we work with, or that anybody works with, for that matter, might not always be a fit. We have to be careful where our passion takes us and discern from that to make the most of our time and energy.

Get in touch with Leslie here to book a strategy session:

Website: hackercommunications.com 
Instagram: @hacker_communications

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Marshall Stern: All right, so today is episode 49. I can't believe it. So next week's our 50th episode, my friends. But today, episode 49, we have a sit down and we have some amazing conversation and some business hacks with my guest who I actually met for the first time just a few weeks ago. Enjoy this episode. Grab a paper and pen.

[00:00:31] Hi, I'm Marshall Stern and I've spent over 35 years leading and growing multiple small businesses. I know firsthand the struggles of entrepreneurship, feeling isolated, lonely, overwhelmed, and feeling like you have to do it all by yourself. I've been through multiple recessions, and I have felt the highs and the lows. I've been there and I get it.

[00:00:50] I've been there and I get it. This podcast is here to change that. Every week I will bring you straight talking advice, real world strategies, and honest conversations about what it takes to succeed in business without the fluff, the gimmicks, or the sugar coat it. If you're ready to stop spinning your wheels and start making real progress, then you are in the right place.

[00:01:14] This is the Stern Truth. 

[00:01:18] Welcome back everyone. That was abruptly, Leslie, you know. Welcome back everyone to another episode of the Stern Truth Business Unfiltered. And I just gave it away who my guest is. She's on my, I guess left, right? I don't know. Whatever way you guys see it. Leslie Hacker from Hacker Communications.

[00:01:33] Love the name. Love the name. 

[00:01:36] Leslie Hacker: Thank you. 

[00:01:37] Marshall Stern: Leslie. Where's the name Leslie from? 

[00:01:40] Leslie Hacker: That's a good question. Well, apparently I was going to be named Penelope, and I don't know if that was a joke with my parents or serious, but they both came to Leslie and I think. This is, rumour has it, it's because my dad wanted my name to be unisex so that I would be able to put it on a resume and be more likely to get a job because people won't know if I'm male or female.

[00:02:09] Marshall Stern: Very interesting. 

[00:02:10] Leslie Hacker: Or non-binary. 

[00:02:12] Marshall Stern: Very interesting, very interesting. Your other name as well. Hacker, right? 

[00:02:17] Leslie Hacker: Yeah. 

[00:02:17] Marshall Stern: That's not what you do though. That's not what you do. Let's be clear my friends. Okay. Hacker Communications. It's not what you do. Tell us a little bit about, before we get into the real thing about the journey, what do you do?

[00:02:30] Who – what is Hacker Communications? 

[00:02:33] Leslie Hacker: So Hacker Communications is a PR and marketing collective that integrates marketing strategies and PR strategies to help businesses grow and scale and connect with their audiences in authentic and meaningful ways. 

[00:02:50] Marshall Stern: Very nice. I have no idea what that means, but we're going to talk about that.

[00:02:54] No, I do, I'm just, I'm kidding. And one thing I want to mention to our listeners is, although we are virtual, we are both virtual obviously. Because you are listening or watching, we actually met each other in person for the first time accidentally at a networking event just a few days ago. 

[00:03:09] Leslie Hacker: Yeah. It was hard to miss.

[00:03:11] I think you're over six feet, right? You're taller in person. 

[00:03:15] Marshall Stern: Well, so, so – I probably need therapy over it. I used to think I was six one. My dad, my dad, my late father, he was six four. He was a big dude. 

[00:03:26] Leslie Hacker: Wow, okay. 

[00:03:27] Marshall Stern: So I always thought I was six one. My brother was six foot a half inch, so I was always a little bit taller than him.

[00:03:31] I thought I was six one. Then my son ends up becoming six one and he's taller than me. So I am getting older, in my age, but I'm not that old to be shrinking. I'm not at that point in my life. So I think I'm a little less than six one. Okay. I'm okay with it, Leslie. 

[00:03:46] Leslie Hacker: So six foot three in that and a quarterish.

[00:03:50] Marshall Stern: So I'm – that was my – yeah, no six. Six foot, like I'm under six one. 

[00:03:54] Leslie Hacker: Okay. 

[00:03:55] Marshall Stern: I'm under… My father was six four, but I'm okay with it. I've had years of therapy. That's for another episode or a different podcast. Sorry. 

[00:04:04] Leslie Hacker: It's true though. Gravity is always pushing us down and as we age we do get shorter, so we have to continue to lengthen. Anyways, that's a whole other topic. 

[00:04:14] Marshall Stern: Well, I'll be back. We'll talk about that too. Okay, so tell me about your journey into this world that we call entrepreneurship. 

[00:04:26] Leslie Hacker: Yeah, the journey began probably before I could, right when I, my first memories began, I guess. My – when my family first came from Eastern Europe in the early 1900s, they started a business.

[00:04:42] And so I was always surrounded by entrepreneurs and business people. I watched my grandfather. Build a really successful business in the labeling industry. They made labels for wine and pharmaceuticals and I watched him grow the business and have many employees. And so from the time I could remember, I was raised by people with that entrepreneurial mindset.

[00:05:12] Then I got into PR and marketing and, around 2015, actually in May of 2015, both of my parents got cancer. and I had already been working in PR for several years at that point. So I needed to start something where I could have the flexibility to be there for my parents, but also keep working and advancing myself and my career.

[00:05:43] So I started freelancing and, from there a few PR agencies in Toronto contacted me and I ended up consulting for them and helping them with social media. And so I kind of just started the business naturally came out of that, and then, yeah, that's kind of how that happened. 

[00:06:05] Marshall Stern: And it's been just like, whew, ever since.

[00:06:08] Right. Just, just like. Blissful. Everything's great. Never a bad day. Clients come easy, come to you easily. 

[00:06:17] Leslie Hacker: Oh goodness. No, definitely not. 

[00:06:20] Marshall Stern: So, so I'm curious, what would you say would be the – we like to talk about the Stern Truth here. That's what, ironically, that's the name of the podcast. What would you say has been to this date - so when did you officially start your company Hack Communications? 

[00:06:34] Leslie Hacker: I started it in 2015. 

[00:06:38] Marshall Stern: Started 2015. Okay. Yeah. So 10 years. 10 years, a decade. 

[00:06:41] Leslie Hacker: Yeah. 

[00:06:42] Marshall Stern: Well, first off, congratulations. Most people don't – most businesses, many don't even last one year. And the ones who do last one year are, like, crushed before the five year mark.

[00:06:55] Leslie Hacker: Wow. 

[00:06:56] Marshall Stern: The 10 years is incredible. What has been the biggest challenge to, for you, would you say? 

[00:07:04] Leslie Hacker: You know, it's funny because it changes all the time. I think lately the biggest challenge is prioritizing. I have so many things on the go and then working with different clients, plus doing marketing for my own business.

[00:07:21] It's like where, how? I wake up every day, I'm like, okay, what needs to get done right now? And how do I decide what needs to get done? So I've actually started this, this, notebook. Every day I get a list. I put together a list and I highlight the things that need to happen today. That has been really just a game changer for me.

[00:07:47] I think it feels good to cross things off the list, I have to say too. 

[00:07:51] Marshall Stern: It does. That's why people love, they hate, but they love to-do lists because it's, they love crossing things off. So I'm curious on the, on that, because we do talk a lot about being intentional on this podcast, being intentional and to do lists and, I always say we need to have more, like, more a to-be list rather than just a to-do list.

[00:08:08] So when you make -  I'm curious, when you wake up every morning and you write down those things, those must-dos. What are you gauging that on? Is it client client's expectations? Is it for your own business? Is it like, where do you – because I know I speak with a lot of people, I say I don't know what to do. I don't know what's the priority.

[00:08:26] How do you prioritize that? 

[00:08:27] Leslie Hacker: Well, you know, I think how I've learned to prioritize it is. For sure the client work comes first because I set expectations for myself and for my clients, and I try to always make sure I'm meeting deadlines, so if it has to do with my business, with revenue, I need to make that the priority.

[00:08:54] But then of course I am part of some, of a nonprofit organization too, and it's the Public Relations Society, so I'm not making any money from that. It's totally volunteer. But being the vice president this year, there is a lot of pressure and my reputation is on the line. So it's not just about money.

[00:09:16] It's about making sure that I'm, you know, representing myself the way that I want to be seen across other, to other industry practitioners. So, yeah, usually that's how I usually prioritize it, but then also making space in the day for myself. And my mental health and physical health as well. 

[00:09:42] Marshall Stern: Love that.

[00:09:43] Love that. All my clients, that's one thing I tell them before they even hire me, I say, one thing I'm going to push you for, push you on, is the me time, the self-care. Because without the self – it's the oxygen mask analogy, right at the, on an airplane, put it on yourself first.

[00:09:59] Otherwise you can't take care of everyone else. So that's awesome that you do that. Do you, like, go for a walk, listen to music, meditate, yoga, that kind of stuff. What do you, what works for you? 

[00:10:09] Leslie Hacker: Well, I have a dog, so every day I wake up and the first thing I do is walk her. But to be honest, that's not enough for me because the priority is her on the walk.

[00:10:21] So doing something where I know it's just for me, so maybe it's sometimes at noon, I'll go and do a fitness class or something, and it's really, it can be challenging to, to push myself to do that, knowing I have all these deadlines and I need to have all these meetings throughout the day, but usually a few days of the week I block off a recurring time so that I do this for myself and I, and I don't feel guilty about it.

[00:10:49] Because my work, like you said, my work is better when I have oxygen. 

[00:10:53] Marshall Stern: Yeah. Yeah. So I hope people are listening to this or watching. Leslie brought up the words blocking, like, I think you actually said the word, blocking calendar, blocking on your calendar. You have these blocks. Right. I'm a huge proponent for that is so important.

[00:11:09] Right? It's so important to block the time and then to respect the block and to do it rather than push it aside. Oh, I could do it. Like, I could do it. I could do – Okay. Leslie Hacker, Hacker Communications. What are some hacks? Business hacks, marketing, PR that our listeners who are from what I know, business owners and entrepreneurs just like you, yourself and myself, that you could, you know, we call them here on the Stern Truth, golden nuggets.

[00:11:35] I'm going to call them for this episode Business Hacks. What are some hacks that you would like to teach, impart onto our listeners? That's worked for you. And it could be within your industry, like for your clients. 

[00:11:49] Leslie Hacker: Yeah. I love that. Thank you for mentioning hacks, because I love my last name and it gets, it keeps everything a little playful around here, so, um.

[00:12:03] Yeah, there's lots of – I have so many ideas. Especially so nowadays. I think people and business owners are so inundated with all the different marketing tactics, like SEO, SMM, PR, CRM, PPC, Google Ads, there's so many different tactics and a lot of business owners don't know where to start with that.

[00:12:31] And I think one way to start is thinking, where is your audience? And nowadays, people are spread out. They're not just on Instagram or on Facebook or they're, they're – there's more segmented audiences, I think. And people are starting their own communities, whether it's online or wherever else. And I think it's important for business owners to stay open-minded about where their audience is.

[00:13:03] And there's a lot of untapped markets that they might not think about. so there's that. And then there's all the different tactics and strategies and where do you start? And that's where I like to come in because I'm always taking this integrated approach to marketing. 

[00:13:21] And I love staying on top of all the latest SEO and Google ads and all of that and give my clients, just throw these ideas at them and they're like, oh, I didn't, I didn't even think about that. But yeah, my – I should have a Google My Business profile. Why? Why didn't I think of that? And it's, to me, it's obvious, but to other people, they're not thinking about it.

[00:13:43] They're thinking about their business, and that's the number one priority. So I think there's a couple little golden nuggets in there, as you would call them. 

[00:13:52] Marshall Stern: Well, today we're calling them Business Hacks, Business Hacks.

[00:13:55] Leslie Hacker: Oops. 

[00:13:56] Marshall Stern: I know, the golden nuggets work. It's, it's on brand for me, but I think Business Hack's on brand for you.

[00:14:01] Because we're speaking about, really, marketing. And so how do you, I'm familiar with marketing, obviously familiar with PR. How do you – when you go into a room, okay. So we ran a networking event the other day. How do you introduce yourself, besides your name? Like, by what you do? 

[00:14:17] Leslie Hacker: Yeah. I am a PR and marketing consultant.

[00:14:23] However, I have heard recently that the word PR is not as positive as it used to be. So now I'm redoing it and I think I'm going to call myself a communicator because that's really what it's all about. And it's about how we're communicating and where, why telling the story and, yeah, and a consultant really.

[00:14:47] That’s what it comes down to also because I'm, I'm a business owner, but consulting is one of my favorite parts of the job. 

[00:14:56] Marshall Stern: So, like, you, so communication to consultant. 

[00:14:58] Leslie Hacker: Yeah, exactly. 

[00:15:00] Marshall Stern: Nice. What do you – here's some questions I like to ask my guests. So I'm going to ask you this one right here. What do you think separates, and it could be some of your clients, it could be businesses you've just seen, maybe friends.

[00:15:14] What do you think separates those businesses or business owners who struggle from really building what they want from those who seem to be doing it? 

[00:15:24] Leslie Hacker: Hmm. Good question. I think passion. When I'm really passionate about something, nothing is going to stop me from doing it. So, and, and also being uncomfortable and going outside of your comfort zone and taking risks. 

[00:15:48] Marshall Stern: Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[00:15:52] Leslie Hacker: Nodding along over there. 

[00:15:54] Marshall Stern: Yeah, it's, yeah. I'm going to let - just keep going, keep talking about your experience, because you've got me now. This is, this is it. This is we're this is real talk. 

[00:16:02] And, and people don't even like to talk about that. Uncomfortable being uncomfortable. Right. That's, we all know the growth happens outside of our, our comfort zone. Okay. But yeah, let's talk about more about that. 

[00:16:14] Leslie Hacker: Yeah. Well, so one business I have worked with, for example. They've been around a long time.

[00:16:22] They've been doing the same thing. You know, they're, they, and it's, it's been working for them, but eventually it will not work for them because the people they're targeting and their current customers are getting older and the same strategy will not work for the younger crowds. 

[00:16:44] But the company doesn't really want to take that leap to the next place because they're nervous. They've never done that before. It might cost more money. What's working is working, so why switch it up? But this is the, this is the truth. That's the cold hard truth here is that eventually it won't work anymore. So, I'm not sure. I hope that they will try to do something different.

[00:17:19] There's a lot they can do, but it is totally new for them and they, they're not ready to make that step forward. But if they don't do it soon, I don't know how long the business will last. So, that's one example. 

[00:17:36] Marshall Stern: Okay. That's good. No, that's good. That's good. So the passion part, what about the passion part?

[00:17:42] Leslie Hacker: Oh yeah, the passion part. I've noticed in myself when I am working with a company that I really love and that I'm a customer of myself, I do a much better job and nothing will stop me from doing the best job I can, and that's why I try to only work now with businesses like that and with companies that I love myself, and I'm not just chasing the money anymore.

[00:18:12] I'm chasing my passion and what makes me feel good so that I'm putting my heart and soul into it and I feel good about it. 

[00:18:21] Marshall Stern: I feel like you're speaking to me. I mean, you're speaking to all of us, but I feel like you're really speaking, you're speaking my language, right? Because that's what I, and I have actually – in my coaching business, I have once taken on a client that I wasn't – listen, our minds play tricks with us.

[00:18:42] I thought I was passionate about the challenge. I was not passionate about this particular business situation and I took on the client for the wrong reason, let's just say that. And it didn't work out. I mean, we worked together for six months, but I don't think either of us got the traction that we really wanted and yeah.

[00:19:07] Leslie Hacker: Yeah, I can totally relate to that. And I've been there too. And I'm curious like, how can you point that out when you're in that moment? How can you stop yourself from chasing the challenge versus, you know, the passion? 

[00:19:22] Marshall Stern: You tell me. I'm still trying to figure that out,  honestly. Well, look, here's the thing.

[00:19:27] I just, like you what you said, I will only work with people where, okay – I got, as I always look back, you know, I read, I read, I've read many books. Well, I listen. I don't like to read as much anymore. I like to listen, but listen to books. The Pumpkin Plan, a really good book by Mike Michalowic.

[00:19:46] Really good book. And he's amazing, like he's hilarious too, so you have to, you don't read it like you have to listen to it. Oh, because he's just you –  He's like, he's a character, but one of his things is the cringe factor. So I always, you know, so I always say, like I said at the beginning, you know, if you could take, and I always say this in on these episodes, if we could take one gold nugget today, one business hack from this session, it's worth it.

[00:20:09] Our listeners, like they're wild for, for their time here, the 30, 35 minutes, whatever it's going to be. In this book, there's a lot, but one of the ones I always remember is the cringe factor. So when you get an email or a phone call on and you look at it, do you have the… or you're excited. If you have the cringe factor or the Ick Factor, to clients, dive deeper.

[00:20:32] You, you might not, that might not be your client that you should be working with. Right. Or it could be just a situation, maybe not the client, but that's the whole point. Whereas you want to work with people like, I want to wake up every morning excited about the people I'm going to be meeting, excited about the people I'm going to be serving on that day.

[00:20:47] And if I'm dreading it or not excited and I don't have that passion, then why am I doing it? Right? So it's exactly what you said, like you want to work with people that you believe, you believe in themselves and their product. For me, it's not as the product for sure, but it's the person. A hundred percent.

[00:21:05] Leslie Hacker: Yeah. 

[00:21:05] Marshall Stern: If I don't believe in the person, like, what they can do, then first of all, I would, I'm not serving them, I wouldn't be able to serve them the way they need to be served. They need to find someone who actually does believe in them. So, yeah. 

[00:21:18] Leslie Hacker: Yeah. I love that. And I think that cringe or that ick, or that feeling, I think is gut and intuition.

[00:21:28]You know, and if you feel that right away, then I think so many of us need to listen to that more, including myself, because I get excited whenever there's a new business that's coming to me, and I'm always excited no matter what, and I always want to talk to them, but I need to pause, listen to myself and my body, and how am I really feeling before I get into it?

[00:21:55] Marshall Stern: Yes. I'm going to go one step further though, because that excitement, that passion can also – this is made for another episode. That passion could actually also lead you down a dark path. The dark path of imposter syndrome, the dark path of being ghosted because you want to work with someone, you know that you can help this person or this company.

[00:22:16] You give the proposal, you meet with them, you find out their needs, do needs analysis, all that kind of stuff, and you do a proposal for them and then they ghost you. Right. You follow up, you don't hear back from them. We all know what ghosting is. My daughter taught me what ghosting was a few years ago. She said, oh, dad, you've been ghosted.

[00:22:32] It's like, what? What the heck? And then we become almost, I don't want to say stalkish, but you've become needy and you keep following up saying, did you get my message? Did you get my message? Are you going to work with me? Are you going to hire me? Right. And a mentor of mine once said, I love the saying needy is creepy.

[00:22:51] Leslie Hacker: Mm, totally. 

[00:22:52] Marshall Stern: Right. And it might not be a needing from the, from the terms of financial needs. I need the money. I need the money. I need the money. Sure. That could be part of it, but it could also be neediness from the stance of, I can, I want to help this person. I can serve them, I can help their business.

[00:23:09] I can, I can. And it's just from that service, right? The heart-driven, and it can get you in trouble, like it can lead you down to, then, that path of what's wrong with me. 

[00:23:19] Leslie Hacker: Yeah. And it totally, and it's, that's definitely happened to me before, been ghosted after sending a proposal. And it's always hard to know too, how many follow ups is too many. So I go with two usually I'll stop after that. 

[00:23:37] Marshall Stern: Yeah. 

[00:23:38] Leslie Hacker: Because I'm not, I don't want to seem needy ever. In professional or in personal life. 

[00:23:46] Marshall Stern: Yeah. The one thing I agree, too, in the short term, I honestly, longer term, like if you do a proposal, let's say I come to you and we have a conversation and you give me a proposal and I don't get back to you.

[00:23:58] I don't get back to you and you follow it up, or vice versa, whatever it is. Four months down the road, three months down the road, just touch base. Hey, not, hey, how are you doing? How you doing? You know, but just, I saw this thought of you. Boom, here's an article. Or write something authentic or honestly, just wanted to check in, see how things are going, and if you want to have a follow up.

[00:24:21] Because the one thing I do know, just from my own experience now, doing that weekly, no, that's needy. But a few months down the road things change and sometimes people are not in the position, the mindset, they're not like we talked about the uncomfortable zone. You give a proposal or I give a coaching proposal to someone and, and they were so into it and they wanted, and then they get the proposal and it's like, oh no.

[00:24:44] That means this is so real right now. Like, it might not be the dollar figure on the proposal, but it might be the work involved. And what if I hire Marshall or hire Leslie and things don't change. So they have to maybe, they might not be ready. They have to get to a point where it's like, I'm done with being comfortable. Right.

[00:25:05] But if they – it is timing, right? I guess this is what I'm saying. I'm rambling on it a little bit, but it really is about timing, I think. And if you just check in four months, six months, you never know. I've had clients, people become clients after three years of being in my Facebook group and seeing my posts and never saying anything.

[00:25:23] And then one day it's like, I need to talk to you. Right. So you just never know. 

[00:25:28] Leslie Hacker: Yeah. It's so true. And I love that the long-term follow up and, that's, to be honest, not something I have done enough of, for my business. And I've tried to find ways of doing that. I'm thinking now maybe I need a mailing system because I need so many people and business owners and how can you keep up with like, I can't keep up with all the people I meet and all the people that are interested in working with me because.

[00:26:00] I have a spreadsheet here, a spreadsheet there. I'm like, I got to just consolidate all of this into a system. But then when you do the newsletter thing, maybe it loses its personal touch. Like an email. 

[00:26:13] Marshall Stern: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:26:14] Leslie Hacker: So, but that's, that's a really good point. And just staying top of mind to just staying relevant.

[00:26:20] And you have the Facebook group and that's really smart, to have, because then people see your name over and over again and you're, they're always, you're always on their mind. And it's like, one day I'll be ready, one day I'll be ready. And then you say one thing, it clicks with them at the right time, the right word.

[00:26:37]And then they call you. So there's a lot of psychology too behind, behind it. 

[00:26:43] Marshall Stern: Yeah. I mean, I would – the Facebook thing, like the Facebook group, I love, I run a couple, I'm looking at starting a third one. Let me talk to you about that one later. But Facebook groups are on the decline right now?

[00:26:55] Well, Facebook is on the decline right now. The  engagement, and that's a, that's a Facebook thing. So obviously Facebook wants to continue to get the revenue. They're going to have to figure that out because people stop using it. The email list is still the number one thing. And whether it's just, or CRM, just like the custom approach, right?

[00:27:12] I don't really like the newsletter thing because it's a newsletter. Even if it's like automated email to your list, but it's just in an email and has the name, person's name. Most people know, oh, it's just automated, but it still looks a little more personal. If they want to unsubscribe I get it all the time.

[00:27:30] If, if they don't want to read it, that's fine. but I think it's just a matter of yes, staying top of mind without being, yeah, it's, there's a fine line. I haven't figured out the exact perfect science behind it, like what that fine line is. But I do know if you just, some people just aren't ready. And then in a few months, maybe it's a few years, maybe it's a few weeks, who knows?

[00:27:52] They might be, they don't even know. Some people don't even know, especially even if like the networking event we were at, you meet a whole bunch of people who they might know people, so you just, you just never know who knows who.  

[00:28:05] Leslie Hacker: And yeah. And one thing too is when I first started my business. this would happen.

[00:28:11] I would get ghosted after working hard on a proposal and coming up with so many ideas and hours spent on it, and then ghost and nothing. And I'd be like, well, what's wrong with me? What did I do wrong? What was I missing? What were they looking for? What did I do? And now I'm like, I don't feel that anymore.

[00:28:30] I don't take it personally anymore. It doesn't, to me, it doesn't look good on them when they're ghosting someone who clearly put a lot of time and effort in. But we've, it happens, and I've done it to people too. I'm not perfect, like, I've ghosted. I don't feel good about it, but it happens and I don't take it personally anymore.

[00:28:52] Instead I'm just, I just look at it like a learning experience really. 

[00:28:57] Marshall Stern: So I'm going to give you a hack, Leslie, and our listeners, because we're talking about this and then we'll – we're going to close things out. I do want you to give some more hacks before we go. I'm going to give you 1 hack – I can't use the hack – one golden nugget.

[00:29:08] You're doing the hacks, I’m doing the Golden Nuggets. Fair? 

[00:29:10] Leslie Hacker: Okay. Fair. 

[00:29:11] Marshall Stern: I'm going to give you one golden nugget here and for our listeners, and then you can give us a hack, business hack. One thing I've done, if I've been ghosted, okay, and it's someone that I think that I can help, and it's been a fit. At least it seemed to be a fit.

[00:29:22] You just, you never know, right? I would do the follow up. Let's say it's the two follow ups and you're not hearing anything back. Most of the time that you haven't heard them back heard back, it's not because they've hired someone else. I’ve found this out just in my 29 years of my, owning my sign business.

[00:29:40] Most of the time they just haven't done it. Okay, but they're not ready. Or sometimes, yeah, sometimes it's, they haven't seen the email. They'll be deleted by accident, but most of the time they've seen it. They're just not. If they're ready, then they're going to reply. If they're not ready, they're not. Or if they're not going to go with you, they're not going to say, no, I'm not interested.

[00:29:59] Too uncomfortable. Right. So one thing I've done, you give them an out, give them an out. The, the, the, the, the worst thing. Listen, we're all salespeople. In the end, the worst thing for salespeople is maybe. That's sort of sitting on the fence or not knowing you want, pardon my language. This is my podcast, so I'm saying it.

[00:30:19] My late father used to say shit or get off the pot. That's what you want these people to do. One or the other. So you can move on and they can move on. And so one thing I've done, and it's worked is on both ways. Like it's gotten people, yes. And people, no, is to just say, hey, could be a couple weeks later.

[00:30:37] Not sure if you got my email or my text message or my phone call, whatever it is. If it's, if you're not interested in it anymore, no problem. Just, just reply back, not interested. All is good. If you do want to discuss further, let's set up a time to chat, or if timing's not right, just let me know. Just to give them the out, give them a little bit of what they want as the control so then they can say, yeah, I'm not interested, or yeah.

[00:31:02] Oh, I am interested. Most of the time they'll come back and say, no, no, no. I'm still interested. Just have to figure out the finances. Yeah. Yeah. I'm still interested. Gotta talk to my partner. Yeah. Yeah. I'm still interested. Maybe the new year, and then at least you can then put them in a bucket over here.

[00:31:16] Rather than the bucket of, like, ghosts. 

[00:31:18] Leslie Hacker: Yeah, that's, that's a really good point because I don't know, I'm not psychic. I don't know how, if the person is happy that I'm following up or if I'm bothering them. Right. Like, so this kind of, it's the, the shit or get off the pot. I love that. 

[00:31:33] Marshall Stern: Don't swear. You can't swear on this..

[00:31:36] But you know what, I did – okay – before you give your last hack before we go, I had a high-ticket coaching enrollment call. I wasn't, I was the client, potential client. It was for a coach, a few years ago. It was like a really expensive program and it was her call, so she, it was, she was the coach, blah, blah, blah.

[00:31:54] She asked her questions, whatever. We met for like 45 minutes. She never followed up once, not once. How did I feel? How do you think I felt if she had followed up every single day for a month, I would think a little needy, a little creepy. But she did not follow up once I felt devalued. Like she didn't want to work with me, so, yeah.

[00:32:12] Unless you're following up every single day, people do want to be valued. They want to know that you think that you're, you can help them. That's, I always say, people don't care what we do. All they care about is we understand them, we get them, we can help them. How we do it specifically, like for you specifically marketing, this PR, whatever it is, communications overall, that's your toolbox.

[00:32:41] That's how you help them. But they know they have this need and you can help them with that. Too many people are out there just saying, oh, I have this 10 step thing, and it'll be 14 calls. And like in the coaching especially and like hourly this, and then you'll get modules this, and you'll get this and you'll get this and whatever.

[00:32:59] It's like, okay, what's that going to do? They just want to know that you understand them and you can help them. 

[00:33:05] Okay, before we wrap it up, what is one thing, maybe it's a business hack that you know, now, you know it’s that one, the whole thing you wish you had known then or put another way, if someone's starting or thinking of starting out or they're starting on their little sort, struggling one thing you want to, tell them, shake them up and tell them this.

[00:33:24] Leslie Hacker: Yeah. Okay. I think so before a business throws money at a tactic, think about the strategy and think about who you are talking to and who is looking for you. And nowadays there's a lot of data. If you have a business already and you have a social media account, for example. You have lots of data. Who is looking at you?

[00:33:56] Age, location, gender, all of it. Look at that and think about that when you're putting together your marketing strategy. Hopefully you are doing a strategy, 

[00:34:09] Marshall Stern: Okay. So, if they're not and they would like to get in touch with you, I'll put your information in the show notes, but a lot of people don't read the show notes, so your name is very catchy.

[00:34:21] How can I get a hold of you? What's the best way? 

[00:34:24] Leslie Hacker: Okay, so my website is hackercommunications.com.  You can reach out to me through there. I am going to give a free one hour strategy session for anyone that's listening. Usually this is $250, so I'm excited to gift that to anyone listening. I also have my agency's Instagram at Hacker Communications.

[00:34:52] You can DM me through there and if you want a quick response, that's probably the best place. But I'm always looking at emails too. And yeah. Thank you so much for having me. 

[00:35:07] Marshall Stern: Thank you for being on this podcast and sharing your business hacks. Leslie Hacker from Hacker Communications. Yeah, I'll put your stuff in the show notes.

[00:35:18] Seriously, like that's very generous of you. I might take you up on that. It's very generous of you to, to offer that. So, gang, like you're listening, you're watching whatever, like, rewind, watch, rewind. Can you rewind? I guess you just move it back. I may, I'm aging myself. Okay. Skip the 8-track to the first segment.

[00:35:39] I – you don't even know what an 8-track is, do you? 

[00:35:42] Leslie Hacker: Yes, I do. They were, they're the bigger cassette tapes. 

[00:35:46] Marshall Stern: Yeah. We didn't call them bigger cassette tapes at the time Because we had no idea what cassette tapes were. But in any case, we had them. Maybe I'll do an episode on that one of these days. I just feel, I just feel like it, yeah.

[00:35:58] Like a step back to, yeah. I don't know why I just said that.

[00:36:01] Leslie Hacker: As a, I mean – yeah, you should. As a music buff, I'm very aware of 8-track and there's even an influencer who, that's his whole specialty. So you could have him on and…

[00:36:11] Marshall Stern: Oh, I have to come up with some sort of business analogy to that. 

[00:36:15] Alright, so you stay put. Don't go anywhere, you, Leslie Hacker from Hacker Communications. Two seconds for everyone else. You guys can go by or break. We'll see you again next week on another episode of The Stern Truth Business Unfiltered. Please share, like, subscribe, and tell all your friends and tell all your friends to listen to this episode because there's a lot of business hacks here today.

[00:36:36] See you next week.

[00:36:40] Thank you so much for tuning in to the Stern Truth. If you found today's episode helpful, we would love to hear from you. Please like, share and leave us a review. Also, if you'd like to be a guest in an upcoming episode or join us in one of our Moment Accountability Group sessions, simply email me to marshall@marshallstern.net

[00:36:59] That's marshall@marshallstern.net. And don't forget to hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode. Until next time, keep pushing forward and leading with confidence.