Ep. 37 The Stern Truth: Business Therapy Thursday with Alicia McKee

Should you focus on your local community or scale online to reach a broader audience with bigger budgets? This is the crossroads many small business owners face, and it's what this Business Therapy Thursday session is all about.

I sit down with Alicia McKee this episode. Alicia is a digital marketing specialist, and she’s been toying with this decision for over a year. In her previous job, she learned how Facebook ads helped get people to see the videos they made.

 Alicia's torn between serving her tight-knit community and pursuing the bigger corporate clients. She’s also juggling two kids, running monthly music circles, and building an app with her dad. Quite the busy business owner!

Through our conversation, we learned about her relationship with money and how that might be a limiting belief for her business. Alicia was mentioning how businesses “can’t afford” her services before even having a conversation with them.

When I asked her why she invested in that expensive Facebook Ads strategy program, she told me she was investing in herself. I also walk her through a critical mindset shift to view her own services as an investment instead of a “cost.”

When you’re a small business owner, you don't have to choose between authenticity and profitability. Find your people. Show up. Genuinely serve them. Show them that you’re worth the investment.

Learn the ONtrepreneur Method at the ONtrepreneur Growth Academy, starting October 8th. If you’re interested in attending, email me at marshall@marshallstern.net.

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I encourage you to reach out with feedback, topic suggestions, and share your own entrepreneurial challenges.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Marshall Stern: So, we're back today with another special Business Therapy Thursday session, and I think you're really going to enjoy this one. Now, if you want to participate and have your own special Business Therapy session, whether we publish it on the Stern Truth Podcast, or we just have it private between you and me, and it's a deep dive Business Therapy session, simply reach out to me marshall@marshallstern.net.

[00:00:27] It's marshall@marshallstern.net. Same thing if you're interested. I've been mentioning the last few weeks, the ONtrepreneur Growth Academy, my friends, begins October the eighth. If you want to know more about it and how you can discover what I call the ONtrepreneur Method, and that's worked for me and my clients, simply send me an email and we can discuss further and see if it is a fit for you.

[00:00:50] It is a small cohort, small group. It's been powerful, impactful, transformative, so reach out to me and enjoy this episode.

[00:01:04] Hi, I'm Marshall Stern and I've spent over 35 years leading and growing multiple small businesses. I know firsthand the struggles of entrepreneurship, feeling isolated, lonely, overwhelmed, and feeling like you have to do it all by yourself. I've been through multiple recessions, and I have felt the highs and the lows.

[00:01:23] I've been there, and I get it. This podcast is here to change that every week. I will bring you straight talking advice, real world strategies, and honest conversations about what it takes to succeed in business without the fluff, the gimmicks, or the sugar-coated. If you're ready to stop spinning your wheels and start making real progress, then you are in the right place. 

[00:01:46] This is the Stern Truth.

[00:01:51] Alicia McKee: Hello. Good. How are you? 

[00:01:53] Marshall Stern: I'm very well, thank you. So this is just you and me. Forget about all the people out there, just you and me. Before we get into the topic we're going to talk about here today or how it can serve you in this Business Therapy session, tell me a little bit about where you're at in your business and what you do.

[00:02:11] Alicia McKee: Okay. I started doing the digital marketing about a year and a half ago. And it came out of – before that I was working for a video production company for about nine years, and oftentimes we would make a video that's a marketing video for a local business, and then they would say, how do we get people to see it?

[00:02:33] And we didn't really have a good answer for that question. We'd be like, good luck. And so I realized eventually I need to learn how to answer that question. And it led me to, this program that taught pretty much Facebook ads strategy and a little bit of beyond that. So I ended up starting my own business to focus on that.

[00:02:51] But a lot – my first client was a video production company, and so I work with a lot of the clients whose videos we make, but try to be a little more proactive about, you know, talking strategy before we start, instead of after we finish. But that's only a small, small portion of the possibility for digital marketing.

[00:03:08] So I'm doing a little bit of both of those things. As my job right now, in addition to raising two kids and running monthly song circles and having this musical career, and building an app with my dad and lots of other fun projects outside of this. 

[00:03:24] Marshall Stern: Wow. Okay. 

[00:03:25] Alicia McKee: Those don’t pay the bills. 

[00:03:26] Marshall Stern: Not yet. 

[00:03:27] Alicia McKee: Not yet. I like that.

[00:03:29] Marshall Stern: Not yet. Okay. So what would make today's session very helpful for you? 

[00:03:34] Alicia McKee: The biggest question that continues to linger after a year and a half of having my own business is whether it makes most sense to stay working. Primarily with my local connections, which I have a lot of them, but it's a small town.

[00:03:48] Or to follow the program I took and run my own ads and reach bigger corporate, you know, clients that have bigger budgets and keep them as strangers and keep those worlds separate, which I've, that's what I've learned through the program I took. But that feels really foreign to me.

[00:04:07] Because it’s not something I'd ever done. And so I'm constantly – and everyone says, well, both, but I'm realizing the strategies are very different and I have to focus more energy towards one or the other. Because I am dispersing myself too thin and then nothing's happening. 

[00:04:22] Marshall Stern: So when you say focus your energy towards one or the other, are you talking about how you're creating clients or is it your job versus your business?

[00:04:31] Alicia McKee: How I'm creating clients and how I'm messaging, how I'm communicating, what it is that I offer, and just like, getting clear about within the realm of digital marketing. What can I, you know, what do I specialize in? Maybe it's finding my niche. Maybe it's, you know, helping the local community, is very little through Facebook ads, that were too small for that to be the best strategy for most businesses here.

[00:04:55] So that's what, you know, that's the focus of where I was trained. And so if I'm going to focus on my local community, I kind of have to put that aside and, build my SEO skills and my Google skills and some other stuff. And then beyond digital marketing, even like events management and sponsorships and, you know, placement on, on video, streaming tv, there's lots of things I could be doing that are just really different.

[00:05:20] Marshall Stern: So where does the job – just for context – where's your business? Where does the job come into the bigger picture versus your business? 

[00:05:27] Alicia McKee: What do you mean by that? 

[00:05:28] Marshall Stern: Well, are you looking to one day have digital marketing business as your thing, or is it just sort of going to be, on the side?

[00:05:38] Alicia McKee: Yeah, I, you know, it's a small town. I live a pretty modest lifestyle, so I don't have to make a lot of money to make things work, and I would rather do that, then, you know, shoot for the stars and try to build a big team and have an agency. I don't have dreams to be, to run a big company. I have dreams to work the least amount I can for the amount that I can pay my bills so that I can go do the things that I love to do.

[00:06:05] Marshall Stern: So, okay, so that means the idea is to still keep, keep the job and do your business. 

[00:06:11] Alicia McKee: Yeah. I mean that's one reason why being a Facebook ads manager was alluring to me because it seems like I'm pretty technically savvy, and it seems like it's a, it's a job that not a lot of people around here have, and it pays pretty well for not that much time spent.

[00:06:28] And I like that about it. I don't want to take that extra time and then, you know, scale up. I would rather just like get a couple clients, have things running. You know, I love helping my local community. It's disappointing to find out that this thing that I learned that's going to pay well, it doesn't really serve my local community.

[00:06:49] But now that I realize that's a fact. I guess I, you know, I have, maybe – I would love to find a thing that, that paid me that much per client, but it was my local client that would be ideal. 

[00:07:01] Marshall Stern: Okay, so why can't you do both? 

[00:07:04] Alicia McKee: I mean, in the long run I probably can, but right now I just feel like I'm dispersing myself too thinly.

[00:07:11] I mean, I did exactly what I was trained not to do when I did start running my ads is like second guess it after the first 30 impressions, change things. Change things again, change my offer, change my funnel, you know, and a lot of that was like, I don't know that I'm confident in what I'm even offering when I'm thinking about offering it to the wide, wide world compared to here where it's like people are already coming to me as, as an expert in something, even though it's not the thing I'm about to pitch them.

[00:07:40] So then it's an easier, you know, they're already warm, so it's easier to keep working with them. Yeah. 

[00:07:48] Marshall Stern: Okay, so it sounds like you're more comfortable or it's more rewarding to you when people are coming to you and they're already kind of warmed up to you, they kind of know who you are rather than a complete, whether it's a cold call or just someone who has no idea who you are.

[00:08:06] Alicia McKee: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:08:07] Marshall Stern: So that's all about creating clients. So that's all about building relationships and you can actually do it for both. 

[00:08:15] Alicia McKee: How so? 

[00:08:16] Marshall Stern: When you're doing, let's say ads management, like for your own ads, not for a client. Okay. Because I assume you can do ads management then for local clients. Okay. So we're not talking about that.

[00:08:26] We're talking about you doing, you getting yourself out there on the bigger scale. Corporate, outside of your market, bigger cities all over. When they click on your offer, or whether, whether it's for a call with you or a lead magnet, whatever it is, that's just the first step. That's like someone bumping into you at the grocery store and you're having a conversation and them say, oh, what do you do?

[00:08:53] I do this. Oh, I'd like to learn more. That's the same thing as the online world. Oh, I see it. I'd like to learn more. Neither may know you. So from there, you can then take it to the next step and you, you can actually build that, like, and trust with the online person, right? So I'm not sure, like, I don't know about the system that you were taught, but in reality most people –  and I've taken systems as well, courses, programs that say – this is the way to do it.

[00:09:20] Yeah, high ticket office offer Facebook ad, click on this, gimme $5,000. I'll, or $10,000, and I'll get you to where you want to get to. That doesn't happen most of the times. Most people need to be nurtured. They need to get to know, like, and trust the person or the company. 

[00:09:36] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:09:38] Marshall Stern: So it's no different than in your local market.

[00:09:41] Alicia McKee: I mean, I think that the difference is the offer has to be really good in a digital form to start with. You know, for to, if ads are going to be what gets their first attention. Whereas, I don't know that I've ever done like real lead generation from this. For my local community, because I've worked with this video production company for a decade who's really well known, and we're like, we're integrated into this community.

[00:10:09] Like people know to call us when they need certain things, and now I'm just like expanding extra things that, that they can know us for. So that's been easier to communicate. But like, you know, the word gets out to a couple thousand people instead of a couple million people. 

[00:10:27] Marshall Stern: Okay. Okay. So forget about the online stuff for a moment.

[00:10:31] Alicia McKee: Okay. 

[00:10:31] Marshall Stern: Let's just let that go. Let's just say you're just focusing on your community. Can you earn that extra amount, money, that extra income in the local community? 

[00:10:42] Alicia McKee: Yeah. I just kind of have to, I think that's what it is, is like if, if I'm going to say, okay, forget the local or the online world, and I'm going to focus on my local community.

[00:10:52] For the most part, that's like forget Facebook ad management, because occasionally people will need it, but for the most part they'll need different things. So then I need to go figure out what is it that I can do to help my local community that is still going to be worth my time. It's not going to be as lucrative.

[00:11:09] But, you know, what's the, how does, what's the whole picture look like for that? So I have some, you know, menus written out and like ideas, but I don't really know how to price things and I don't really know how to package things. And I'm definitely not selling, you know, I'm at this point kind of just listening to the people that, that need things and figuring out what they want.

[00:11:33] And I'm like, okay. I guess I could try to do that now. I'm let letting them lead and I, in the long run, I want to be able to lead them. I just feel a little  - boing boing boing boing boing. 

[00:11:44] Marshall Stern: No, I get that. I understand that. What lights you up? Like what, what excites you, 

[00:11:49] Alicia McKee: In the world of marketing or anything? 

[00:11:52] Marshall Stern: Just anything. In your world. 

[00:11:56] Alicia McKee: In my world, yeah. Music. Music lights me up and, and that has nothing to do with it, the world of marketing or video production that, you know, it’s, has been my job for the last decade. And yeah, I have a group of friends that I make music with and, and we lead local events every month and that's, you know, if I could make that turn into a career, that'd be wonderful.

[00:12:25] For many, many years. We've been doing this a long time and I've, I've had this vocal kind of reaction when people are like, you should charge for these events. And I was like, no, I will never charge for these events because then it gets complicated. Then it's like, now what? I have to set the right – I have a weird relationship with money.

[00:12:40] Let's just, let's just say that. But I think I've made a lot of progress and I'm coming around to the idea that, you know, value, people want to show you that they value something and people do value what we offer in the music world. And so, there's a possibility that we could start charging for our events and that we could start turning this into something that's a little bit closer to our career, but it feels like a long road.

[00:13:10] And something I definitely couldn't just like stop. What's more traditional, you know, traditionally going to pay me and, and do this, but it could be something that I work towards slowly. 

[00:13:23] Marshall Stern: Why can't you not stop? Or why can't you not? Or, or why can't you not make a plan? I'm not saying you should. 

[00:13:30] Alicia McKee: I know, yeah, well, I mean, we've got some grand ideas out there of like being able to, do our package, our offerings to be at like, retreats and conferences that people are holding here. because that's a really touristy area where we are. So a lot of people come here for, for special events.

[00:13:49] And rather than trying to just like charge our, you know, couple dozen local friends who get together every month, charge people who are coming to visit and then packaging them just in a more, values-based way of like, what are the benefits outside of that. It's fun. We've put some work to get to, together about that already and it's exciting, but I don't know if there's a market for it really.

[00:14:13] We'll have to just try it. 

[00:14:15] Marshall Stern: Let's go back to the ads management for a second. 

[00:14:17] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:14:18] Marshall Stern: So you correct me if I'm wrong, correct me if I'm wrong, you invested in this. Did you invest in this program or did the company invest in the program? 

[00:14:25] Alicia McKee: No, no. I invested in it. 

[00:14:27] Marshall Stern: You invested in the program to help the company, the video production company, or is this something you, you were looking to on the side and 

[00:14:34] Alicia McKee: Honestly, it was the program that I took sales salesperson that convinced me that I should pay for this program and I should start my own company rather than like do it through the company I was when I was searching for the right program to train myself. 

[00:14:49] It was going to be that I would stay as the employee of the company and this would just be a service that we can offer. But he helped me see like, no, the, the realm of what you're going to learn is like 12% of that is for video production.

[00:15:02] There's so much more beyond that, and it's your own skill, so you should keep it for yourself. And he was good salesperson. So I took his advice and I'm glad I did. I mean, I'm, it's, it's kind of opened my eyes to them. A different lifestyle where now, I'm in control of my time a lot better and, and I still helped at the video production company, but as a contractor.

[00:15:23] And so he's like more my client instead of me being his employee. And that feels, like, yeah, I just have kind of more control over what and how I help and can put the boundaries down a little easier. 

[00:15:35] Marshall Stern: Okay. Okay. So I guess we go back to the original question you have. 

[00:15:41] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:15:42] Marshall Stern: Local market or go big. Are you leaning one way or another? 

[00:15:48] Alicia McKee: Yeah, yeah. I'm leaning towards saving, staying with my local community, but I just can't tell if that's because it's more suited to me. I mean, it's obviously more suited to me because it's what I've been doing for a long time. But I'm wondering if there's not a big reward on the other side of the other path that I just don't know yet because I haven't gone down it, you know?

[00:16:08] Marshall Stern: I thought you had this weird relationship with money. 

[00:16:11] Alicia McKee: Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:12] Marshall Stern: Okay. So what if you went down the other path and you became this really successful ads management company? Online digital marketing company agency? Dare I say what, what if? 

[00:16:23] Alicia McKee: Yeah. I mean, I think what I dreamt about when I first started this training is four or five clients that just stick with me for a long time like that, that will sustain me.

[00:16:33] And it will, you know, be less of the churn of like trying to, like constantly, be trying to find the new clients and doing tiny little things, but it's just like one big campaign for one big client. Multiply that times four or five, I'm good. That's all I need. That feels a little more out of reach when I'm thinking my local community, it feels like, no, I'm going to be working on one little client for two weeks and then I'm going to need to find somebody else and I'm going to need to do that times 20 instead of times four.

[00:17:02] Marshall Stern: What? Okay. Let's talk about your local, economy, the local clients. What do you enjoy? What sort of, there's obviously a comfort level there, but what do you enjoy about it that you not – okay, maybe you’re pushing back a little bit on the online unknown community. 

[00:17:243] Alicia McKee: Yeah, and again, because of my relationship with money clouds my judgment sometimes. It's like, if you want, I'll, I'll talk about what I love. That has nothing to do, whether it's lucrative or not. That's probably the what you're asking, right? Like… 

[00:17:39] Marshall Stern: Not really. It's more, really like what, what pulls you, it sounds like it's a, it feels like it's a pull. Every time that you took this program and you're trying to – you were like, it's again, I might be wrong.

[00:17:51] Kind of like, I'm forcing it. I'm trying to, I'm forcing it. I'm trying to be an ads manager. It's the program I took. I got to do it, I got to do it, I got to do it. There's going to be more money there. But I get this pull to my local community. What's the pull, what do you think the pull is from? 

[00:18:05] Alicia McKee: Like deep connections, you know, being able to, to have a relationship beyond service-oriented, but like we, I've become friends with my clients and, you know, serving in the musical capacity is like steep connections. That's, that's what's great about it. So it feels, and not to say I know you can connect with somebody that you meet online from across the country, but it feels sort of like.

[00:18:33] I don't know, like, doesn't have the staying power. It doesn't sound as, as interesting than like the ones that I am going to run into at the grocery store. You know, the one that are part of the community physically that I live here. 

[00:18:47] Marshall Stern: Do you think there's, whether it's the relationship with money or the limiting beliefs that might be getting in the way and clouding?

[00:18:57] Alicia McKee: Certainly, yeah, certainly. 

[00:18:58] Marshall Stern: What if I told you factual? Okay. Just, just try this on. Okay. Say, assume for a moment, this is facts that there's no difference. You can connect with people online and build relationships just as much as you can offline in your community.

[00:19:16] And they could be just, just as deep, just as meaningful. And you can make just as much of a difference, if not more of a difference, because it's a broader community, more people, people that are outside of your area, across the country in a different country. 

[00:19:33] Alicia McKee: Yeah. I mean, sure. I have, I have some life examples of that, you know, like connecting with people that are, that only virtually, but it.

[00:19:44] It doesn't go without, like wishing that you could be in the same room with them and that, you know, that turning off your screens and being able to connect in person is a different, a different thing that I value a lot. 

[00:19:57] Marshall Stern: So I'll go back to the question. I'm going, I ask again, why can't you have both? In fact, why can't you have all of it? Your music, the video production, the local community, and the online community? 

[00:20:13] Alicia McKee: Yeah, I think I can, I think it's, then the question becomes, what should I do first? Like today, what should I, what should I chase tomorrow? And so far, I asked that question in the back of my mind, but then I'm busy.

[00:20:26] Like, it's not like I have this wide open day to be like, gosh, how should I spend, you know, people are already always asking for things and stuff, so. So I'm, it might be that it's just like the wrong question to ask. 

[00:20:38] Marshall Stern: So people are asking for things, I'm assuming your local community. Like a lot of businesses are asking to, asking for you to help them with certain things.

[00:20:47] Alicia McKee: A little bit of that, a little bit of, you know, the video production company as my client, I can definitely let spread to be, you know, take up more time than it, than it. If I was, if I had other clients, I could squeeze in more stuff in. But, and then, yeah, just other projects like this, this app I'm building with my dad becomes.

[00:21:07] Something that we spend a lot of time on, and that might actually turn into something that is, that is a, that we could monetize. Someday too, but, so there's no, yeah, no, no boredom. There's no sitting around wondering what to do. 

[00:21:21] Marshall Stern: There's lots of, lots of stuff. Well, you've got two, two kids of stuff and I've got two kids. 2 boys, right? 

[00:21:26] Alicia McKee: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:21:27] Marshall Stern: So, okay. okay. I think it goes back to the. And it was the training we talked about or that we did, right? 

[00:21:37] Alicia McKee: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:37] Marshall Stern: You can look, everyone's different. So one thing is like, so you took this program, this ads management program gave you a system, not every, first of all, you don't have to follow a system, A, B, C, D, like or 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, right? Exactly as is. You need to customize it to what works for you. 

[00:21:57] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:21:58] Marshall Stern: Use it as a framework, and I don't know the system that well. I don't know the system actually at all, really. But there's not, not one system fits all. So you can use some of it. Your learnings, the skills, especially like for ads management with certain companies probably in your local market.

[00:22:18] There might be certain people or, or companies in your local market that do rely on, other than the video production company that do rely on online sales or traffic, whether it be hotels or obviously anyone who does the e-commerce. I know it's a small community, but it is possible there are some.

[00:22:35] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:22:36] Marshall Stern: Okay. But on the online space, it goes back to making it more about what do you like, let's back up for a second. What do you like about the people, the local community and how you can help them? 

[00:22:47] Alicia McKee: I think one thing I like is when there's a, there's not a lot of like, tech savviness in this area, and so I like to be able to help people in that way.

[00:22:57] Where, where, you know, they see me as like, wait, you're good on computers. How do I do this very basic thing? And I, when I know the answer and I can help them, and then I get them through their hurdle, that feels really good. I think I love working with kind of more right brain type artists and healers and things that.

[00:23:16] That a little, you know, little nugget of information goes longer way, you know, and it's a boon and a bane, I mean, that, that crew is, hard to work with sometimes too. But  I do love being able to help them, like, sort of translate the art artist perspective to the more business perspective or the more technical perspective.

[00:23:38] Marshall Stern: Could you do that in the online space in a broader community or in a larger format? Like online? 

[00:23:45] Alicia McKee: Probably. I mean, I probably could. Yeah. The  portion of like marketing for my own marketing is like, ugh, I, that's, it feels like a hurdle to get to the place where I would, where I would reach that community and then be able to help them.

[00:23:59] And they don't tend to have the budgets to, you know, to make a lot of that kind of marketing strategies to get their attention worth it. 

[00:24:07] Marshall Stern: Well, it depends on what, I mean the music industry per se, like just the creative arts industry is huge. And it can cover anything. Can even be, music, or not music, music studios per se, okay.

[00:24:22] Or, tutors. Music stores. Music stores who do have tutoring lessons or like music schools. 

[00:24:30] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:24:31] Marshall Stern: So there's all of that as well. Would that excite you to work with. Someone in that kind of industry? 

[00:24:38] Alicia McKee: Mm. I guess it depends, like if it's, you know, having guitar, they call it Guitar Center as a client to run ads for, I don't know that that, that, that kind of fits in the category of like, well they probably have a big budget and so I wouldn't be passionate about it.

[00:24:57] But if it would like. If it would pay well, I'd be fine with it. It's more like the small, the little guys who I like helping are the ones who can't afford it and don't, you know, so that's where my relationship with money. Maybe this caused that, or maybe the – I don't know – but, but you know, helping the massage therapist locally who has a website and is wondering why nobody's just calling her on the phone.

[00:25:23] I'm like, yeah, that's not usually how people do it anymore. Like, what? And being able to help them just, you know, get a Google profile up. Like, that's rewarding, but how much could she pay me a hundred bucks, you know? 

[00:25:36] Marshall Stern: Okay. What if she could pay you $800? 

[00:25:40] Alicia McKee: Yeah, one time. Then it's a lot of work to get a lot of them in the small town, so.

[00:25:45] Marshall Stern: Okay. Well, what if there was a massage therapist on that connected with you, one of your ads clicked on it online, and let's say your package, I have no idea what your packages are, but let's say it's $800 a month for ads management and they were willing to give you that kind of money. 

[00:26:02] Alicia McKee: Yeah, I mean, if I could find a few of those, that would be great.

[00:26:06] Marshall Stern: But now they're $800 a month, so they've got money. So would you be fulfilled helping them? 

[00:26:13] Alicia McKee: Oh, yeah. I mean, it's not the fact that they don't have money, that it makes it more fulfilling. It's the fact that they really need the help and they aren't tech savvy and they haven't done, like, they haven't put themselves online yet, so like the beginning stages that they're in, that's what I like.

[00:26:30] Marshall Stern: Okay. What if they're –  I'm just pushing back on this a bit. So what if they were not in the beginning stages? They had been around for a couple years. They're spinning their wheels. They really are overwhelmed with everything, whether they're a massage therapist or a therapist therapist or a coach, or a music studio, whatever it is, they're confused because there's so much noise out there from all the marketers. And Google My Business. That's, that's the thing to do now. 

[00:26:55] Alicia McKee: Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:56] Marshall Stern: Google AdWords, that's the thing to do right now. X, I don't even know, is there, is there advertising on X? I don't even know. 

[00:27:01] Alicia McKee: I don’t know. 

[00:27:02] Marshall Stern: I don't even know. Or TikTok, whatever. It's just so overwhelming. 

[00:27:06] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:27:07] Marshall Stern: But they've been around for a couple years and they just need help. Yeah, they need guidance. Maybe they're doing okay in in sales. They have a team. They have staff and everything, but. They're not where they want to be. 

[00:27:23] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:27:24] Marshall Stern: They're not little, but they're not big. They just want a consistent influx of clients of customers. And they need someone to help them. 

[00:27:33] Alicia McKee: I would love to help somebody like that. 

[00:27:35] Marshall Stern: Well, Alicia, just so you know, there's thousands and thousands and thousands of businesses out there just like that.

[00:27:41] Alicia McKee: Yeah, yeah. And what you touched on is like the overwhelm that they feel, and then the strategy that I can offer. Like that's what I love too, is to be able to sort of sift through the noise and put together something that's a clean, kind of like put their blinders on. This is your world now. I love that. And then the ease that they could get from understanding, like, okay, I have a plan. 

[00:28:03] Marshall Stern: Do you create your own music? And that's rewarding to, to create it and then hear it, like play it. Be able to, yeah. And, and what's rewarding about it, 

[00:28:13] Alicia McKee: And a lot of it, in the events is that we, they're teachable songs, so we all sing it together.

[00:28:19] Marshall Stern: Okay. 

[00:28:19] Alicia McKee: Kind of a niche thing. What is rewarding about it? 

[00:28:23] Marshall Stern: Just so you know, you are lighting up as you talk about it. 

[00:28:26] Alicia McKee: I know. I've been told, you know, creating something and then seeing it, you know, expressed in a way that sounds and feels beautiful and then, you know, sharing that with people that I love and, and everybody sort of like holding it. Is it just the best feeling ever? 

[00:28:46] Marshall Stern: So you're actually doing a, I mean, it's a service you're offering others. You can do the same thing with a digital marketing agency. I'm using the word agency, which you said you do not want to build. Okay. You can build the same thing, the same feeling with an agency.

[00:29:02] It might not be, it might not resonate with you as much because it's music is dear to your heart. 

[00:29:08] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:29:09] Marshall Stern: But with music, just like what actors do. but probably authors too is that they entertain people. They make a difference in people's lives. They touch people. Right. And that's the same thing you can do on the marketing side for some of these people who might not be, they might be starting out or they might have been in business for a few years and they're just, they're so confused by all the noise.

[00:29:38] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:29:40] Marshall Stern: The tech stuff, same thing. All the same stuff as the local people have. 

[00:29:44] Alicia McKee: Yeah, 

[00:29:45] Marshall Stern: Because here's the thing, okay. Okay. I'm going to say this. The local people in your town are not much different than the local people in the town or the city 17 hours from you. They're just in a different one. They're local there, and you might not bump into them at the grocery store, but you can bump into them online.

[00:30:07] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:30:08] Marshall Stern: And connect like this. 

[00:30:10] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:30:12] Marshall Stern: And in the end, they don't care. Nobody cares. I say this all the time, nobody cares that you're an ads manager or that you have that tool, that skillset, right? Yeah. Nobody cares that you could do this or to do that when it comes to their business, at first, nobody cares that I am a coach.

[00:30:30] All people care about is that you understand them and their frustrations and their pain points, and you get them and you can help them, right? That's it. And too many people are out there in the marketing world, in the coaching world, in the so-called expert space, patting themselves on the back saying, I've been on stage with this person and this person.

[00:30:53] I've got this, I've got that. I'm this, I'm good, I'm great. I'm whatever. look how amazing I am. I can help you. Oh, by the way, I can help you. People don't connect with that. Right? 

[00:31:06] Alicia McKee: Yep. I agree. 

[00:31:08] Marshall Stern: Some people do. Some people say, oh, that person has it. That person's been there. I want them to help me. 

[00:31:14] Alicia McKee: Right. But. 

[00:31:15] Marshall Stern: The majority of us connect with people. 

[00:31:18] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:31:19] Marshall Stern: Connect with people who actually get us. Some people will click on a Tony Robbins ad because they see him in this big successful guru and he does understand it a lot more than most because he is, has got the NLP and the deep psychology training for the last 40 whatever years.

[00:31:36] But does he really get where Alicia is at this moment? 

[00:31:39] Alicia McKee: Probably not. 

[00:31:40] Marshall Stern: Okay. Probably not the best example. because maybe he does to a certain degree. Because he knows the deep psychology, but most people don't. 

[00:31:48] Alicia McKee: Well, he's never talked to me, so. 

[00:31:49] Marshall Stern: But he's never talked to you. He's never talked to you.

[00:31:53] And so the point is to connect with people that resonate, that you connect with, that resonate with. It has to be it. It's both ways. Maybe there're maybe they're artists. I know our, a lot of artists don't have the financial ability or mindset to invest, let's say. 

[00:32:13] Alicia McKee: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:32:15] Marshall Stern: Maybe their therapists, healers, just other Mom and Pop small businesses, you know, bed and breakfasts, people who just, they, they just struggling to fill their rooms or their slots and they need help and, oh, yeah, by the way, you can help them. 

[00:32:34] Alicia McKee: Yeah. So I think I'm getting from you that if my – that I could reach the broader audience and help my local community if I have an aligned offer that works for both of them.

[00:32:45] Like maybe that's the niches, the healers of, you know, and, I don't know how to categorize them, healing arts. But yeah, I think when I get to my online space of like, okay, now let's build the funnel for that. I build it and then I'm like, well, but if I'm going to put ads out, why don't I try to go for the big dogs?

[00:33:06] Which is a different language. You know, you speak in a different language and maybe that's the part that I can let go of. because it doesn't resonate with me at all. I’m like –

[00:33:17] Marshall Stern: It doesn't excite you?

[00:33:17] Alicia McKee: I would not enjoy that. No, no. 

[00:33:19] Marshall Stern: It doesn't excite you. 

[00:33:21] Alicia McKee: No. That, but it almost feels like, what's the word? Like I kind of have an ethical barrier around some of the practices that they would want me to do. 

[00:33:32] Marshall Stern: Feels icky. 

[00:33:33] Alicia McKee: Yeah, icky. That's a good technical term. 

[00:33:35] Marshall Stern: That's my technical term. I'm a technical guy. Yeah. Icky. 

[00:33:38] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:33:39] Marshall Stern: Whoever you work with, it has to be someone that you resonate with, that you, that you connect with for you in order for you to be able to do your best work.

[00:33:49] Okay. Let's go to get back to your music for a second. Okay. If you, if – based on where you're located, Amazon, Jeff Bezos calls you up, says Alicia. I want you to do a gig for us. Come to our, our holiday party and play for our entire C-suite executives. Right. How would you feel? 

[00:34:15] Alicia McKee: I mean, how much are they paying?

[00:34:16] Marshall Stern: $50,000? 

[00:34:17] Alicia McKee: Yeah. I mean, I would do that then I wouldn't have to work for half a year. 

[00:34:21] Marshall Stern: So where's the, this whole money relationship issue, if you're going to do it for $50,000 is pretty good. 

[00:34:28] Alicia McKee: Yeah. There's like my integrity and making a lot of money, and it feels like they're on opposite ends of the spectrum.

[00:34:36] And you know, if it's for a blip, like, okay, I'll make a lot of money and sacrifice my integrity, fine, but then I'll go back and we'll live in this world. And that's the problem. I mean, I know that that's not, that's a false dichotomy. I know that, that it's not really how it works most or often. Sometimes it does, but not all the time.

[00:34:54] But I find myself kind of in that place a lot where it's like, it's going to suck if I make a lot of money and if I love it, then it can't possibly be something that involves money. A monetary exchange. Yeah. 

[00:35:09] Marshall Stern: So you think every musician out there is miserable? A lot of successful – 

[00:35:13] Alicia McKee: But no. I mean, no. No. I mean, it's not, it's not that black and white.

[00:35:18] Marshall Stern: Yeah. Yeah. That's for, a whole other conversation. 

[00:35:20] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:35:21] Marshall Stern: But I truly believe I do, from everything we've spoken about and just from talking to a lot of different people, business owners, you can build the same connection and have the same enjoyment with a business. In fact, I would almost challenge you back and that you can actually be even more fulfilled on in going in the online space because you can make a bigger difference.

[00:35:44] You could help more people. Right now, you're kind of stuck if you just did your community. You're stuck with the local community, which is lovely people and you can help them, but there's only so much you can do, and there's only so many of them. That's the benefit of the online world. If you stay kind of more focused and as you, y'all own the marketing business called niche.

[00:36:07] You niche down or niche down. People call it niche or niche. Right. to a specific target audience. 

[00:36:15] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:36:15] Marshall Stern: Whether it's like the healers, because that's a huge, like just a, anyone in the, the health and wellness, healer space. It's massive. because that even goes as far as like yoga centers.

[00:36:29] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:36:30] Marshall Stern: Right. Med spas. Well, no, but, well, yeah. It depends on the med spa, the level. I mean, if it's like yeah. If we're talking about like California plastic surgery to the stars. Maybe not that kind of thing. Right. But just generally, you know what the ones I'm talking about and there's tons of them.

[00:36:47] Yeah. retreats, like health retreats, like there's, there's so many, so many people. And then there's some, some artists as well, for sure. Authors, right. There's a lot. I mean, it's, it's endless. It really is. But the connections you can build with them, I would challenge you. That might even be just as strong, if not stronger than some people in the local community.

[00:37:10] Alicia McKee: Yeah, yeah. No, I just got to write a good ad so that people click on it. 

[00:37:17] Marshall Stern: Well, you have to do your thing. You're split testing and all that kind of stuff that you, that you do and everything. But let's, we have a couple, let's talk about that for a second. If you were to pick one sort of audience, general, more general, not complete niche, down to like a tiny, tiny audience.

[00:37:33] Like massage therapists in Oklahoma. Right. Nothing wrong with massage therapists in Oklahoma, but there's. Right. You can go bigger than that. What would it be? 

[00:37:44] Alicia McKee: Yeah. I mean, I – do you think it's too big to just say like healing arts, all of it, like businesses that, don't have a lot of a, what would categorize them?

[00:37:55] Because like what you named fit, I think fits, kind of a similar to what could work for a similar offer like authors and yoga studios and retreat centers and massage therapists and all the other interesting types of healing art modalities that are out there. 

[00:38:12] Marshall Stern: Yeah. 

[00:38:13] Alicia McKee: Brain spotting and craniosacral therapy and – 

[00:38:15] Marshall Stern: Oh yeah. I mean there's all that. 

[00:38:17] Alicia McKee: Reiki, and all that stuff like, I think that could fit all together into one audience, one niche called. Healing arts, 

[00:38:22] Marshall Stern: Healing arts, health and wellness. Healing arts. Yeah, absolutely. I just had a check in with a client of mine who has a – what's it called? Sound bath business.

[00:38:37] Alicia McKee: Mm. 

[00:38:37] Marshall Stern: I had no idea what they're all about and now I'm learning so much stuff about it. Right. That's all. It's all part of it. And they are all these companies, whether it's yoga studios, sound bath, the Reiki, all of it, they all are, some of them are in small towns. Okay. Like yours. But a lot of them are in bigger cities and they require, they're looking for, they need people through online like the, they need the visibility to be bigger.

[00:39:05] They rely on online bookings, especially the health and wellness. The chiropractors, massage therapists, physiotherapists. 

[00:39:12] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:39:14] Marshall Stern: Massage therapists. Right? Therapist therapists. Yeah. It's all based on online traffic. Instagram, Facebook. Yeah. Okay. 

[00:39:23] So if you pick that, how does that sit with you to just say for the next, let's say give to time for the next few months, I'm just focusing on building my campaign, my funnel for whatever you want to call it, the health and wellness, that whole area, that whole industry. 

[00:39:40] Alicia McKee: There's a, there's a doubting voice in me being like, they can't afford it. They can't afford what would make it worth it for, for me. And there's exceptions to that for sure. But I think that's where my limiting belief comes in. because I mean, I have a call with a massage that, not a call in person meeting with a massage therapist tomorrow.

[00:39:58] I'm going to help her. I'm going to give her some free advice because I can't help myself. There's some, there's some very easy things she could do tomorrow, and then I'm going to tell her my pricing and she is going to be like, oh gosh, I can't afford, like, I, I'm already playing this, the conversation out in my head and I haven't even met her yet.

[00:40:14] I mean, I've met her, but not with her about this. 

[00:40:17] Marshall Stern: Okay. Tell me. Okay, let's role play for a second, or let's just go through it for tomorrow. Tell me about, what do you think her challenges are for her business? 

[00:40:30] Alicia McKee: She doesn't have enough bookings. 

[00:40:32] Marshall Stern: Doesn't have enough bookings.

[00:40:33] Alicia McKee: And she doesn't have clarity about what she does. She does, but she's not communicating clearly what she offers. 

[00:40:38] Marshall Stern: Is she a one person operation or is she a. 

[00:40:41] Alicia McKee: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:40:44] Marshall Stern And what's your package? What's the package price and what do you – what's the services? What would you offer her? 

[00:40:49] Alicia McKee: Well, that's just it. I mean, I think she needs, like Google Book Business profile set up and some basic SEO, would go a long way if she'd be willing to pay for it.

[00:40:59] She could run some probably, Google ads, pay per click, and then she could probably use a whole different funnel, whole different website. 

[00:41:12] Marshall Stern: And what's your package? What's your price? 

[00:41:15] Alicia McKee: I don't have a package for all that stuff because that's not what I've done so far, but I would make it up real fast. I mean, not on the fly, but I would figure it out once I know what she wants.

[00:41:26] Marshall Stern: Okay. Yeah. What do you think? You could just give an idea guess of what you think it would be. 

[00:41:32] Alicia McKee: Well, and, and like if upfront, maybe it's like a couple thousand dollars to build her a funnel and set up her accounts and stuff, and then, if she wanted to do SEO, that would be something I outsource, which is about a thousand dollars a month.

[00:41:47] I'd charge her. And if it's Google ads, it would be a little less, but same. I think that's, I'm right there sitting on, do I learn Google ads or do I just outsource Google ads? That so far I've only outsourced them. And then the ad spend that, whatever that might be. So like my guess is that that's too much, but it wouldn't be worth doing for less than that.

[00:42:11] Marshall Stern: Okay. So yeah, there's upfront cost and then there's the SEO or the Google ads or whatever. Maybe there's a campaign, face ads campaign like, or is it just Google ads? 

[00:42:20] Alicia McKee: I wouldn't do Facebook for local business. Looking for local. 

[00:42:23] Marshall Stern: Right, right. 

[00:42:25] Alicia McKee: Or just, yeah, so it's just her, so it wouldn't be worth it. 

[00:42:28] Marshall Stern: Yeah. So it might be, well, with ad spend, it could be SEO. Monthly, two, 3000, 2,500 monthly maybe plus 2000 startup cost. So yeah, for, okay. So in reality, yes. For a single practitioner, it would probably be a stretch. Okay. It doesn't mean they won't do it. 

[00:42:49] Alicia McKee: Yeah. Well, and also I am constantly in this loop of like, well, what could I offer her that will be a little bit effective instead of jumping, you know, biting off so much like, all she needs is like two more appointments a week instead of, you know, 50 more appointments.

[00:43:08] Then is there a way to do that? And then times that by a million. Because there's so many clients that, that are in that position where like they want help, but their budget is more like. $300 a month, not 3000 a month. 

[00:43:20] Marshall Stern: Well, let's be real. Most people don't even think about a budget. Most people like don't have a budget.

[00:43:25] Alicia McKee: No, they don't, they don't have extra money. 

[00:43:28] They don't even have any money to, you know, they don't, they have zero budget, but they can squeeze out a few hundred, you know, 

[00:43:34] Marshall Stern: They, okay, so hang on. So I meet with potential clients frequently and. I think one person in all the people I've ever met over the years actually said they had a budget for coaching.

[00:43:48] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:43:48] Marshall Stern: No one has a budget for coaching. 

[00:43:51] Alicia McKee: No. 

[00:43:51] Marshall Stern: It's always a stretch. It's always an investment. It's always somewhat of a leap of faith. Okay. Because they're looking for the results that the coaching will bring for them. 

[00:44:05] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:44:06] Marshall Stern: It's the same thing here, so this person may not have the budget for it. Okay. Or anybody like bigger, bigger companies, like multi, multi practitioner companies will, however, it is an investment. 

[00:44:22] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:44:23] Marshall Stern: Okay. So one thing you can do with this particular person is find out what they're, well you, you pretty much know what they want. They want more bookings, right? And then you can simply ask them what is, you would love to help them. There are certain things you can do. What is their budget? And a lot of people will say, oh, I don't really have a budget. How much can you, how much could you put aside for marketing if I could, and you paint the picture for them, if I can help get you fully booked or - right.

[00:44:58] Booked more frequently in because you're increasing your, the revenue is what you're doing. So it is an, it is investment, right? Right. You're not selling them, paint to go on the walls, which, help with the aesthetics and everything. We know, we know that. But it's, this is our, there's ROI.

[00:45:16] So there's the investment side of it. So you could always ask them and you just go with it. 

[00:45:25] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:45:25] Marshall Stern: Okay. But again, it is what do they get out of it, showing them, and because they, people, our future clients need us to lead them. If I work with you, Alicia, I'm going to help you, you and your business, go from here to here.

[00:45:43] To here. Mm-hmm. Through what I do. Yeah. Whether like I'm talking like if we're role playing, right? 

[00:45:48] Alicia McKee: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:45:50] Marshall Stern: Oh, how are you going to do that? Well, we're going to take a deep dive, find out where the opportunities are for your industry and all that kind of stuff. It might be Google Ads, it might be this. But this is what, let me put a proposal together for you.

[00:46:02] Okay. But yeah, we can definitely, you don't have to give her a price, just find out, be interested in her and find out what her needs are. 

[00:46:13] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:46:14] Marshall Stern: And maybe you do have some starter packages that are simply updating their Google My Business profile. 

[00:46:20] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:46:21] Marshall Stern: I'm making up a number, $399. I don't know. Whatever. 

[00:46:25] Alicia McKee: Right. Yeah. 

[00:46:26] Marshall Stern: Okay. Same thing with anybody online. It's the exact same thing. There are, there are people who are spending, there are companies that are investing in your services multiple thousands of dollars a month. Because they're getting the return on investment. They're getting bookings, they're getting clients.

[00:46:45] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:46:45] Marshall Stern: And it's worth it for them. And that's what we all want. You want clients? 

[00:46:50] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:46:51] Marshall Stern: Or you want leads, whether you, it's your job to convert them. You – we want the leads. Obviously. We want clients. You can help them get the leads. It's their job. It's their job to have the systems in place to convert them.

[00:47:03] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:47:04] Marshall Stern: So, okay. So what's your next step? 

[00:47:07] Alicia McKee: Well, I'm going to talk to her tomorrow and listen to her and find out what she wants and tell her how I can help her, give her what she needs, not necessarily speak about the services and. and I'm going to stop trying to tell myself this self-defeating story that nobody can afford me.

[00:47:27] Maybe they can. And yeah, speaking in terms of investment, instead of, you know, how much do you have sitting in your bank, in your savings account right now? Is better. 

[00:47:38] Marshall Stern: Well, before we go, just want to – look, you took this program right? This ads management program. I'm sure it wasn't inexpensive.

[00:47:47] Alicia McKee: Right. And it was five times more than I would've expected it to be. 

[00:47:50] Marshall Stern: And you paid it. 

[00:47:52] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:47:53] Marshall Stern: And I'm sure you didn't – 

[00:47:54] Alicia McKee: It’s a good salesperson. 

[00:47:55] Marshall Stern: Well, but I'm sure it's like you had this money just sitting around budgeted for this program. 

[00:47:59] Alicia McKee: No, I'm still paying it off. 

[00:48:00] Marshall Stern: Why did you say yes? 

[00:48:02] Alicia McKee: Because I was investing in myself.

[00:48:05] Marshall Stern: Yeah. That's it. 

[00:48:07] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:48:07] Marshall Stern: I'm sure this massage therapist probably does not have three, four, $5,000 a month just to spend in advertising. 

[00:48:15] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:48:17] Marshall Stern: Most people don't. Right. Bigger companies for sure. because but most people, practitioners don't. Doesn't mean they're not willing to spend it because you did.

[00:48:29] It's an investment. And if it's going to get them the result that they want, they will invest it. because it's going to come back. 

[00:48:34] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:48:35] Marshall Stern: And that's the one good thing about, the amazing thing about your industry and what you do. There is a return on investment. They need to know it. It's not going to happen within two weeks.

[00:48:46] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:48:47] Marshall Stern: Right. But if you are, listen to them, you understand them and you're, and you build the skills to be able to deliver the, the service, you can definitely help them. And it's an investment, not a cost. 

[00:49:00] Alicia McKee: Totally. 

[00:49:02] Marshall Stern: Okay. So we've gone full circle. Yep. Aside from her, before we go, aside from tomorrow for you, do you have a little bit more clarity on maybe the next step?

[00:49:15] Alicia McKee: Yeah. I have the beginning of a funnel built that sort of is a little more flowery talk. You know, it definitely would be more, it would vibe more with the healing arts. So I'm going to look at that again and see if I can kind of clean it up and, and let myself lead with that for a little while. Instead of ping ponging around to all these different ideas.

[00:49:40] And that's good. 

[00:49:42] Marshall Stern: That feels good? 

[00:49:44] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:49:45] Marshall Stern: Okay. And again, just remember, don't talk yourself out of the online world being the scary money hungry, sadistic, whatever, like, I don't know, thing. Right. It's not that much different than the offline, local community. 

[00:50:03] Alicia McKee: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:50:04] Marshall Stern: Local communities are everywhere.Your people are there in other local communities as well. 

[00:50:09] Alicia McKee: Yeah. 

[00:50:10] Marshall Stern: So, yeah. Okay. Hope that, hope that helps. Okay. 

[00:50:14] Alicia McKee: Thank you. 

[00:50:16] Marshall Stern: So no, thank you. Thank you for coming on to our Business Therapy session and for all of those watching, I would love to hear your comments, feedback, any insights that you've had

[00:50:27] And we look forward to seeing you next week on another episode of The Stern Truth. Bye for now. 

[00:50:33] Alicia McKee: Bye.

[00:50:36] Marshall Stern: Thank you so much for tuning in to the Stern Truth. If you found today's episode helpful, we would love to hear from you. Please like, share and leave us a review. Also, if you'd like to be a guest in the upcoming episode or join us in one of our Moment Accountability Group sessions, simply email me to marshall@marshallstern.net.

[00:50:56] That's marshall@marshallstern.net. And don't forget to hit the subscribe button, so never miss an episode. Until next time, keep pushing forward and leading with confidence.