Ep. 97 The Stern Truth: Scaling Your Business with Joshua Gould

Are you ready for gold nugget after gold nugget? Then this episode with Joshua Gould is for you.

Joshua is the CEO of thebigword, a translation and interpretation company. He’s an entrepreneur, an investor, a dad, and a husband. Make no mistake, though; he’s been through recessions and the pandemic and made his way out the other side, when so many business owners haven’t.

He admits that it’s a different kind of mindset than when you own a business. He even has his own word for an entrepreneur already inside a business - intrapreneur. Got to say, I love it. It’s the beginning of a true entrepreneurial spirit. 

Joshua tells us about a time he started a janitorial services business and admits that he lost money on keyword advertising at first. Eventually, after some learning more about ads, and several thousand dollars later, they figured out how to create a full-fledged strategy that worked. 

Like I said, it's golden nugget after golden nugget in this episode. When you’re young, take risks. Get comfortable with rejection. Once you get comfortable with it, those risks are more of a numbers game. He mentions one of my favourites which is to be of service to others, not for money or for a fee - ask what you can do for them. 

Joshua hammers home to have no regrets. You don’t want to be thinking about the “what ifs.” You can’t have an ego when you start a business, so his advice is to stay humble but stay confident.

Get in touch with Joshua here:

Website: www.thebigword.com
Email: contact@joshuagould.com
LI: linkedin.com/in/joshuadgould/ 

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Transcript

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[00:00:00] Marshall Stern: Hi, I'm Marshall Stern and I've spent over 35 years leading and growing multiple small businesses. I know firsthand the struggles of entrepreneurship, feeling isolated, lonely, overwhelmed, and feeling like you have to do it all by yourself. I've been through multiple recessions, and I have felt the highs and the lows.

[00:00:24] I've been there, and I get it. This podcast is here to change that. Every week I will bring you straight talking advice, real world strategies, and honest conversations about what it takes to succeed in business without the fluff, the gimmicks, or the sugar-coated. If you're ready to stop spinning your wheels and start making real progress, then you are in the right place.

[00:00:47] This is The Stern Truth.

[00:00:53] Marshall Stern: All right, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of The Stern Truth Business Unfiltered. And we have a very special guest this week, all the way from, I believe, Miami. Though he doesn't sound like he's from Miami, but he's from Miami. Josh Gould, how are you? 

[00:01:06] Joshua Gould: Thanks, Marshall. Thanks for having me. Yes, I started life in the UK, but then I wanted to see the sun. I'd never seen it before, so I came to Miami. 

[00:01:17] Marshall Stern: I might be joining you. I'm here, we were talking earlier, I'm here on the Wet Coast of Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, and it has been wet. It has been wet. But I, I'm, I'm visualizing the sun. I'm living life vicariously through your stories you're telling me about Miami.

[00:01:36] So tell us a little bit about what you do now and your journey to get to this point. 

[00:01:44] Joshua Gould: So, okay, I, I'll work backwards then. I essentially am an angel investor, and I also am the CEO of thebigword, and thebigword is a larger company, but it was built from really, you know, a few thousand dollars all the way up to what it was today.

[00:02:06] So, and I've been there for the majority of that journey. But I also, I’m a dad, I'm a, a, I'm, I'm a husband, so it's a busy time. But just how did I get there? I went to college at 18, and I sat in the lecture hall, and I thought to myself, "Man, I don't think I can do three or four years of this." 

[00:02:32] "And also I'm not sure that it's even that important." Because I wanted to be a creator. I wanted to be entrepreneurial. I wasn't even sure if I was that employable. And so, the first thing I did was I went to a staffing agency, or in Europe they call them recruitment agencies. I don't know about Canada.

[00:02:57] But I went there and I got a job for Coors, you know, the beer company. And they gave me training in selling, and that was life-changing. Because once I could sell, it was almost like you got this superpower. So, I went out, and I actually, funnily enough, changed my career within nine months, which felt like forever at that age.

[00:03:23] And I became a buyer because I realized buyers are really salespeople, and you just have to sell people on selling you their stock for cheaper. So, I was in a big box store called Littlewoods, Littlewoods discount stores in the UK. And then I went and did the night shift in a call center for thebigword, and I was selling to America.

[00:03:49] So thebigword was a very small company back then, and, like, if we made a $5,000 sale, it was, it was great. So, I would sell to the US, in the night. Most my clients were banks, and I was selling them translation, and a translation of mainly equity research, public and private equities. So, this is for traders.

[00:04:13] And that went really well, and then I had the opportunity to go to the US and really start the business there, and start from scratch, which is really difficult because I had this infrastructure. The business had things like letterhead. It had an office. It had someone to pay the bills and pay taxes.

[00:04:33] And all of a sudden, at 21 years old with no degree in anything other than, you know, just survival, I guess, because that's what I'd been doing up until then from leaving my parents' home, and was starting again from scratch with nothing. And it was very, very lonely, even though I was working for a company.

[00:04:56] And I invented this term, I probably didn't invent it, I probably stole it, but intrapreneur. So, these are entrepreneurs that are working within a, a, a company or an organization. And there are some benefits to being an intrapreneur, like you're going to get a base salary. But other than that, you're pretty much the same thing.

[00:05:17] So I went out and I grew the business, and then the Great Recession came along, and unfortunately, most my clients were banks and I would literally see the people I was selling to, because I lived just off Wall Street, I would see them walking by me with like their box, and it was like a movie. It was the strangest thing ever.

[00:05:37] You know, the – these were so glamorous, the, the people, and they got these black limousines. And there I was just struggling, living in this walk-up and, you know, the rats would fall through the ceiling on a regular basis. And then I was feeling sorry for them. And they struggled to get jobs. But we had to pivot the business, and I bet your your listeners understand about that because small businesses and new businesses, they're constantly pivoting until they really find what it is that's going to work.

[00:06:09] And I see that through my investing in small businesses. 

[00:06:13] Marshall Stern: Mm. 

[00:06:14] Joshua Gould: And, and in fact, I joke, but it's really true, that I'm a horrible investor in businesses because I always think I know what's going to work and what's not going to work, and I'm usually wrong. So, I change my strategy to invest in the people, not the business.

[00:06:30] And at that point, you really trust people to figure it out, even if the business isn't necessarily the best idea or the best commercials. But the best people do. They just pivot and they figure it out. I was that person then. I had to pivot, and we started selling government contracts. And the cool thing about government contracts, and a good takeaway for your audience here is, first of all, the government is blue chip.

[00:06:55] They're going to pay you, and they may pay you a little bit late, so you got to watch your cash flow. But most of the times they don't. 

[00:07:01] Marshall Stern: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:02] Joshua Gould: And they are good payers, and they're going to pay you, but they're the biggest buyer in nearly anything. You know, it doesn't matter what you sell. Maybe you've got people who are selling chemicals to janitorial services.

[00:07:15] I guarantee you the government's buying more of that than anyone else. So, we look at government contracts, and all of a sudden, the average deal goes from 5,000 to at least 500,000, but well into the millions. And the other nice thing about government contracts is that everything is advertised, so you don't have to go and find where the deals are.

[00:07:36] You don't have to deploy marketing automation tools to spam everyone or telemarketers. You're not going to networking events pleading with people to make introductions. It's all there. It's online. Whether you're in Canada, whether you're in Europe or the US, there's websites that are free. People will try and charge you, but the government has their own websites.

[00:08:00] They're free, and you can go and download the RFPs, which is Request for Proposals, in your area. You know, whether it be a geo area or a product area. So that's what I did, and it was... I don't know if you've seen the movie War Dogs, but it was the legal version of that. You know, we were literally selling government contracts.

[00:08:21] And we grew the business, and it was good timing because George Bush, who was president at the time of the United States, was pumping tons of money into the economy, and then there was the war machine. In 2013, I actually left thebigword to start up my own company because, like a lot of entrepreneurs, you just want to see if you can do it.

[00:08:41] It's almost like it doesn't matter if you succeed or fail, but you can't be on your deathbed thinking, "What would have happened if I did it?" So, I did that, and I actually took funding from thebigword to go and do it because they, they had a lot of trust and a lot of belief in what all-new startups do.

[00:09:02] They go to friends and family, and they were both friends and family. So, I went there, I took money, and I started up my own company selling contingent workforce services in the defense sector. And I thought I was going to have a really nice office in New York and, you know, deal with all these suits. But the reality is none of them knew who I was.

[00:09:26] There was no trust. And, you know, "Who is this young guy coming to my office without an appointment trying to sell me something?" So, you know, that didn't work. But what happened was someone gave me a good piece of advice. If you can get the buy-in of the people on the ground, then you're more likely to get the people in the ivory towers to want to see you.

[00:09:49] Now, where was the ground? Well, in those days it was Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria. So off we went, you know, and we, we went out and we met the people and we shook their hands, and RFPs came out, which we knew about ahead of time and that we had had an opportunity to shape, and we started bidding for them. And we went from zero to $20 million in revenue in three years.

[00:10:13] Marshall Stern: Hmm. 

[00:10:15] Joshua Gould: So, then, from that point on, it, it was great, but I wanted to buy the company that I did, the part, that I didn't own from thebigword. And thebigword liked the company because it was cash generative, it was doing really well. And I, I think a lot of entrepreneurs feel like this. You may own the company, you may be the CEO of it, but you really still have a lot of bosses.

[00:10:42] So, you know, whether that be your bank or whether it be your customers, they all act like your boss and they kind of are your boss. So, I did a deal with thebigword that I would roll the entire company into theirs. We would merge the companies, and I become CEO of the group. And in 2021, COVID hit. We lost 47% of our revenue.

[00:11:04] I had $200,000 a day of costs, and I had no rich uncle to call. 

[00:11:10] Marshall Stern: Mm. 

[00:11:11] Joshua Gould: And all the money that I'd made in the defense business was at risk, and wars were winding down, which is a good thing overall, but not good if you're in that business. And, you know, so I did a deal with the other owners that we would sell the business once we stabilize it.

[00:11:28] And we did, and it was, you know, it, it ended up being really good. We sold it to private equity in 2021, and I thought I was coming to Miami to hang out, you know, do what people in Miami do, which is a little bit of this, a little bit of that, but no one knows what they actually do. Or real estate, that's the other thing.

[00:11:47] Everyone says, "I'm in real estate." God knows what they actually do in real estate, but that's what they say. And I thought I could be that. But Susquehanna, which is a huge options trading bank here in the US wanted me to stay on as CEO as part of the deal, which I did. And that was five years ago, and I'm still here

[00:12:09] But I still have that entrepreneurial flair. So, I have been investing. I've got a company that I've invested in that's a consumer-packaged goods product called Falafel Love, and we're in supermarkets throughout the mainly East Coast of the, of the United States. I've invested in a healthcare startup and rollup, which invests in, like, small single doctor offices in the region of, like, a million to $2 million of revenue.

[00:12:37] So I'm pretty much, that’s my story, Marshall, I guess. I know it was a long answer to a short question. 

[00:12:45] Marshall Stern: Well, no, I, I love it. And, and so I guess there's so much in there to unpack. I – first of all, I love the term intrapreneur, okay? Because I'm all about, and I run a group called the ONtrepreneur Inner Circle, O-N.

[00:13:02] So it's like… you go from an intrapreneur within a company, but you have this entrepreneurial spirit. And, and what I find, and you might find... I, I'm curious with the, the, the companies that you invest in, the smaller, the smaller businesses you invest in… a lot of business owners and a lot of our listeners get stuck.

[00:13:21] Like, they'll take their skill, whatever it is. They might be... They might work for another company. They might be a marketing strategist inside of a, you know, a company, and then they just, they get tired and they just want to do it on their own, so they own... It's the E-Myth, right? They own, open up their own marketing strategy company, but now they're doing the work, right?

[00:13:40] So they might be the entrepreneur, but they're not really the entrepreneur. They're actually the employee, right? They're doing all the work, and they don't have time to build, build their business, and they don't see the vision of the company. So, you, you've come from that space Where you talk about pivoting, right?

[00:14:01] But it's also seeing what other people don't see and working on the activities rather than just the actual whatever it is. You've built businesses. You've helped other businesses build, and you invest. What do you look for in opportunities? In other... You talk about people a lot. What are you looking for in these businesses when you invest in them?

[00:14:25] Joshua Gould: Yeah. So, there's two types of small business owner. There's someone who's creating a job for themselves. 

[00:14:30] Marshall Stern: Right. 

[00:14:30] Joshua Gould: It's an outsourced job, but it's still a job. And, you know, there's nothing wrong with that. You are a business owner, sure, but you are your product, and your business can't be more than that whilst you have that mindset.

[00:14:44] They're not investable assets. I buy quite a few of those, by the way. I like to buy those, Marshall, because, you know, then I can roll them in, you know, I take the book of business, I can roll them up together, and they're not very valuable because there's a lot of key man risk. So, you know, the, again, you know, I don't want to poo-poo what I buy, you know.

[00:15:06] These are assets I like to acquire. 

[00:15:08] Marshall Stern: Mm-hmm. 

[00:15:09] Joshua Gould: But they do have a value, but the value is super low. I mean, you're talking like one, maybe two, absolute most three times their cashflow. And that's after I've replaced them and factored that in, and there's usually not a lot. So, you know, you're talking like let's say they do half a million at most.

[00:15:30] Most of them are doing like more like $100,000. And then we say, "Well, if we replace you, there's $100,000 worth of costs, so your business isn't worth anything." So, it, it's a real challenge, that. Now, the other side of that same coin is people who start businesses to grow a business, and to your question, to create a vision to scale.

[00:15:55] And these are people who typically don't want money now. You know, these are the people who will have a million-dollar business that may be making 2, $300,000 in, in cashflow profit, but they're still living in a small apartment, they're still driving a cheap car. Why? Because they're taking that money and they're reinvesting it back in their vision.

[00:16:21] Back into their business. And that's the kind of people I'm looking for. So, it's, it's within the person, it's innate. I can tell you, when thebigword was making a few million dollars in cashflow a year, I was living in a home with used and secondhand furniture, and I was driving, you know, like, a nice car, but like a $40,000 car.

[00:16:47] Marshall Stern: Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:48] Joshua Gould: Not what you would, not what you would think of a, a leader of a business that's doing a few million dollars profit. I have only had one salary increase since 2013 because I don't make my money from salary, I make it from the value of a company growing and then eventually selling. So, I'm looking for people with that mindset.

[00:17:10] It's really, really hard. It sounds very sexy, but in reality, it's not very sexy to go home and sit on someone else's sofa and wonder whether we did a good enough job cleaning it. And I don't want anyone to feel sorry for me. You know, I had a very beautiful house and, you know, because that was an asset that was going to appreciate, so I believe in spending on that.

[00:17:33] But you're really looking for a mindset of someone. The other thing, I want them to be a street fighter. And I don't mean literal street fighter. I want them to be able to barge your way past a, a receptionist, and knock on, and make a call and because, not that they're going to do that very much, but again, it comes back to mindset.

[00:17:59] Marshall Stern: Well, I, I love, I love that you mention that because I, I was just writing some notes as you were talking earlier, and I wrote down like, rules of the street or street rules. 

[00:18:09] Joshua Gould: Yeah. 

[00:18:09] Marshall Stern: And then you bring up the street fighter. So, for, for our listeners, what would be some of the tips you would give them to survive on the street and to get past the receptionist?

[00:18:23] Joshua Gould: Yeah. So, the first thing is get really comfortable with rejection. 

[00:18:27] Marshall Stern: Okay. 

[00:18:28] Joshua Gould: And you- the only way you can do this is by getting rejected a lot. Because once you get rejected a lot, and then you don't get rejected, and you have that big win, you don't care anymore about being rejected. It becomes somewhat of a numbers game.

[00:18:43] So if I put this into business speak, there's a funnel, right? There's a marketing funnel. Now, that might be telemarketing, it may be email shots, and from that you're then going to get video calls or face-to-face meetings. So, this is your typical business that's not a storefront. And you are then going to meet with people, and in the early days, they're going to know you don't know what you're talking about.

[00:19:18] So my advice to myself quite often is, "Don't go in as if I know what I'm talking about." And you got to remember, I sometimes go with the business owners that I back, and I'm running a company with a workforce of 15,000 people, and then I have to go and sit in the front of, in front of Whole Foods- 

[00:19:36] Marshall Stern: Mm-hmm... 

[00:19:37] Joshua Gould: ...in a one-person business startup, and it's very humbling.

[00:19:42] So you can't have an ego. You got to be grateful for being there. You got to be grateful for the advice they get. And what I find is that people do want to help people who want to help themselves. 

[00:19:56] Marshall Stern: Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:56] Joshua Gould: So, when you're in front of a Whole Foods or, you know, a, a, any kind of big client, you say, "Listen, we're a startup. We're brand new at this." You admit it.

[00:20:05] "We don't have many clients or any clients, but we've got this factory we just put a lot of money into. We're really happy with this product, and we think we can build it around your community." And once you start being honest with them like that, and I think the owner of that, someone called Inbal Hagag, who's the owner and CEO of it, she said to them, "If you don't want us in your store, that's okay.

[00:20:31] Just tell us what you want to see from us next year, because we'll be back." 

[00:20:36] Marshall Stern: Hmm. 

[00:20:37] Joshua Gould: And the suc- the, the, the sale wasn't successful at first in Whole Foods, but she did go back with their suggestions. She changed the packaging, and she went back and they put her in a store. So, sorry, in their store. So, it's about really being humble, zero ego, don't pretend you know.

[00:20:59] In fact, pretend you don't know, because people then want to help you more. And people do want to say, "I spotted that brand," or "I was the first customer."  I, I did it today. Someone wrote to me, an old school friend. He's starting a business in New Zealand. He's moving from the UK to New Zealand. I said, "I'll give you some business. You know, it doesn't matter. I'll, you know, I'll spend 100 bucks with you."

[00:21:23] I think he charges thousands of dollars, and I'll be... I'll do a white paper, and I'll do whatever you want to help you market. 

[00:21:32] Marshall Stern: Hmm. 

[00:21:33] Joshua Gould: Just because I want to help him, but I also want to feel good myself. It makes me feel good. And I think that, you know, a lot of buyers and procurement people like that.

[00:21:45] Marshall Stern: So, it's interesting because, you know, you have... Like in the US you have Shark Tank. Here in Canada, we have Dragons' Den. We have Shark Tank as well. And you see people on there all the time, and they're going in with these ridiculous valuations. They, they're in zero Whole Foods. It could be a packaged foods company, you know, a, a little startup.

[00:22:03] And some of them, like the, the Sharks or the Dragons here in Canada, they're giving, they're trying to... some of them are being nice. They're trying to give them some of the, those, those tips, the advice. And they're just like as a, as the entrepreneur or as the business owner at the start, you're, you're... some people are not ready to hear it.

[00:22:24] They think... You know, they come in, they say, "I want 10% for, you know, $500,000." And it's like, well, it's a ridiculous valuation. And they all think, "No, but it's going to be worth that." But you have, like, $10,000 in sales. So, I like that part about the humble, being humble. And the obviously being comfortable with rejection is huge. You mentioned something earlier, and because I know of our, a lot of our listeners are service-based business owners, and they're trying to get by the gatekeeper.

[00:22:57] So I want, just before we wrap things up, I want, like, how do you get by? Because you've, you've done it before. Gatekeeper could be the CFO. It could be the receptionist. 

[00:23:08] Joshua Gould: Yeah. 

[00:23:08] Marshall Stern: How do you… how do you get by the gatekeeper? 

[00:23:10] Joshua Gould: So, it depends what business you're in. But first I would say learn the rules of the game and then figure out how you can circumvent them.

[00:23:19] So for example, in the government contracting space that I'm in, there are businesses in Canada ... Sorry, there are government contracts in Canada, Europe, and the US where they are set aside for small businesses, and they're also set aside for female-owned businesses. They're set aside for people with disabilities.

[00:23:45] Marshall Stern: Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:46] Joshua Gould: So, you know, if you're like me and you're ADHD, you know, that's – that in some countries is seen as a disability… put it in your wife's name, you know? Then you're a female-owned business. I'm not, I'm not saying scam the system, you know. It's, it's really got to be in her name. You can't just say it.

[00:24:07] So there's, there's ways. A- and, and I can't win a contract from those folks because even if it's not completely set aside, they will get handicaps that are, you know, and they'll score higher points on the responses to the RFP, which is exactly how a government contract's marked. There are similar things in many consumer product buys, where they say they've got to work with X number of small businesses.

[00:24:38] So learn the rules of the game and figure out how you can make yourself more sexy in terms of an opportunity for them. The second part is… sometimes it's just luck. I wish I could say it was different, but you're going to go out to a lot of people who just don't need your product in that moment, and by the time they need your product, they don't even remember you existed.

[00:25:05] So let's say you're a, a, an HVAC contractor. Well, if my HVAC isn't broken, I don't care if I get a mail shot. It's going in the bin. But if I know it's leaking, and imminently I need to get it looked at, then I, "Oh, that's good timing." I'll start calling the, the mail shot that I got in, in the mail.

[00:25:27] So, to some point, it really is a numbers game. I know people hate it when I say that. And what you then do is you have to assess what's working and what's not. I see a lot of small business owners just waste money on marketing because it makes them feel good. It makes them feel busy. So, but you also just can't bin or trash what you done quickly if it doesn't work really well straight away.

[00:25:55] Right. I, I used to have a janitorial services business which we started up, me and my wife, and we did loads of keyword advertising, and we'd lose loads of money at first, but we were accepting that we had to learn how to use AdSense and all the keyword advertising, and that we would eventually figure out how to target these better.

[00:26:18] So it took a lot of time and many thousands of dollars, but eventually we got there. And, you know, we did a better job at creating landing pages. So, you know, you've really got to figure out a marketing strategy. It- they won't come to you, and not everyone's born with great contacts. So, these are things that you can do whether you've got a good contact or not.

[00:26:41] And then the third bit is, is networking. You know, the dirty truth about networking is if you go to a networking event, everyone there is to, is, is only come to sell. No one's there to buy. So, I actually talk about this a lot with my own workforce and sales team. If you go into a networking event, don't sell anything.

[00:27:06] Ask what you can do for people. 

[00:27:08] Marshall Stern: Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:09] Joshua Gould: Just ... And do it. Like, if they, if they need an introduction to someone that you know, do it. And if you do that 20 times, post that networking event, and then you can go back to those people and say, "Can you do this for me?" You know, “Can you post this for me? Can you like this for me on LinkedIn?

[00:27:32] Can you give me a reference? I'll do a little bit of work for free." So, you know, it's all very well saying use your contacts. Not everyone has contacts. And if you have contacts, of course, just go and speak to all your contacts, tell them what you're doing. And then people are embarrassed to incentivize people financially.

[00:27:52] So I can tell you, I get paid sometimes, and it's not about needing money or not needing money, but business brokers will pay me sometimes to put them in touch with someone who wants to sell their business. But they're going to make potentially over half a million dollars from the sale, and they will pay you $20,000.

[00:28:14] So don't be afraid. You know, if you are, let's say, got a roofing company and you know that your average sale is $15,000, don't be afraid to go to your friends and family and everyone and say, "Guys, I'm spending $1,000 to acquire a single customer. I'll give you $1,000 for every customer you bring in." 

[00:28:38] And people think that that's kind of cheap or demeaning. A thousand dollars is a thousand dollars. You know, I… you know, a thousand dollars won't make a massive difference to my life, but believe me, if I get a thousand dollars, I'm over the moon for now, and I'll do it for free most of the time. You know, business brokers, I won't do anything for free for because they never do anything for me.

[00:29:00] But don't be embarrassed to pay people to be good contacts. And you're only paying them on results, so you don't even have to have the cash. And the thing is, you can create this entire workforce of people who don't really work for you, and they're not your salespeople, but they are financially incentivized to put you in touch.

[00:29:23] They don't really do a good job at selling for you, so don't expect them to do that. They will literally just put you in touch, and then it's down to you. And the fourth takeaway is when you finally get through the gatekeeper, make sure you've got an irresistible pitch. If you're going to go out there and you're going to pitch them on something that they can buy from people they already work with, they already know, they already trust, they're not going to buy from you.

[00:29:52] So irresistible means too tempting to resist. And be really honest with yourself. You're not a good judge on your own business. I'm not a good judge of my own business of what's too tempting to resist. So, you go and speak to people and say, "What would make you move from your existing vendor to myself?"

[00:30:15] Just ask them. Like, where do I need to be on price? Forget what margin you think you can make. I was speaking to someone who does my deck on my boat, and he said he has to make 30% net profit or he won't take the job. So, I said, "So you're telling me you rather have a $10,000 30% job than a $150,000 20% job?"

[00:30:40] And now he looked at me and he said, "Well, you know, I probably would take the $150,000 20% job." I said, "But you won't because you'd still quote at 30%," right? Which he's, you know, he acknowledged. So be smart about your pricing because once you're well-known and once you get economies of scale, you can automate things, you can bring in technology.

[00:31:07] So look ahead, you know, to what you're doing. So have something irresistible. Pricing always matters. You may think you have the best quality product and you're going to be the best customer service but pricing is always going to be a huge factor. It won't be the only factor, but it'll be a huge factor.

[00:31:24] And then really figure out what else makes your products irresistible, because you're going to get one shot usually to go and pitch. 

[00:31:33] Marshall Stern: Okay, so I'm looking at this. I think you lied, because I think you actually gave five or six, but that's okay. That's more – more, more is great. 

[00:31:39] Joshua Gould: Well, that can't count. That's why I put it so cheap.

[00:31:42] Marshall Stern: So just, just to go over it, because I just kept writing. I mean, you talked about being comfortable with rejection. Well, it was, okay, be comfortable with, with rejection, be humble, don't have an ego. Okay. You talked about learning the rules of the game

[00:32:05] Networking. Don't try to just, like everyone's selling. I agree 100... I, I agree with all these. Be of service, connect people, be a connector really. It's being a connector, because that will stand out, and have an irresistible pitch, and knowing your numbers, all of that. And there's a lot within each of those.

[00:32:26] Final question I like to ask everyone. If you could go back to the young Josh, first of all, I know you're, you're, you're a nice guy, because I've never met... My son's name is Josh. I've never met a not a nice Josh. 

[00:32:46] Joshua Gould: Okay. 

[00:32:46] Marshall Stern: Okay. So, you have to be a nice guy. So just, you look like a nice guy. You sound like a nice guy.

[00:32:53] If I asked your, your, if I asked your kids, you have two girls? You told me you have two girls, right? 

[00:32:57] Joshua Gould I have two girls, yeah. 

[00:32:58] Marshall Stern So how old are they? 

[00:32:59] Joshua Gould: They're 12 and 13.

[00:33:02] Marshall Stern: Okay. You're ready? Are you ready for that? 12 and 13, wow. Teenage years. 

[00:33:09] Joshua Gould: No one's –  no one's ready for that. But, you know, they're 12 to 13 going on 25.

[00:33:14] That's why I talk so much in these podcasts because I don't get a word in at home. 

[00:33:19] Marshall Stern: Oh, yes. Do you have a, do you have any dogs at home? Cats, dogs?  

[00:33:22] Joshua Gould: I do, I also have a female dog. 

[00:33:24] Marshall Stern:  I was going to say. All right. I don't even know where to go with that one. Okay, so young Josh, if young... You know now if you knew then what you know now about the rules of the game, about, about business, is there anything you would tell your younger self, specifically?

[00:33:45] Like, is there one thing you would tell yourself? 

[00:33:47] Joshua Gould: Yeah. There is, and that would be to take way more risks younger. And- 

[00:33:55] Marshall Stern: Okay... 

[00:33:56] Joshua Gould: …there is no better time financially to take risks when you're young. You've got a long time to recover, for a start, and usually you have way less to lose. So, I think that I played it too safe for too long.

[00:34:11] Marshall Stern: Mm. 

[00:34:12] Joshua Gould: But I... A lot of people ask that question to me, and I'm sure to other people, you know, "What would you tell your younger self?" I really think, you know, and there's all these 40 under 40, you know, from Forbes or whatever. I think it's way more impressive to be on a, you know, a 40 over 40 list because it gets harder.

[00:34:36] Marshall Stern: Mm. 

[00:34:37] Joshua Gould: I, you know, your brain, my brain isn't as sharp as it was, and, you know, my stamina being… you know, I travel 100 out of 365 days a year, and I'm going through India time zones, all over Asia, and, it's really, really hard. So, I try and ask myself sometimes, "What would I tell my older self?" 

[00:34:58] Marshall Stern: Mm. 

[00:34:58] Joshua Gould: And I, and I've got a similar answer to that, is take more risks, you know, because it becomes harder when you have more to lose.

[00:35:06] It's – and that advice is important though because I always imagine myself on my deathbed, and I think, "What would be my biggest regrets?" Well, I have two beautiful children. I have a wife. I have a home. I, my, my goal was always to have a boat because I love the water. I got that. I got it before I could afford it.

[00:35:29] And I, you know, but the one big kind of thing that's in my mind is, did I live up to my potential? And I don't think I'm anywhere close to it. So, you know, so I, I hope I haven't confused your listeners there, but we should really be thinking less about what we'd tell our younger self, in my opinion- 

[00:35:54] Marshall Stern: Mm... 

[00:35:54] Joshua Gould: …and what would our older self tell ourselves today?

[00:36:01] Marshall Stern: That was very powerful

[00:36:05] And we have to start using that in future episodes. 

[00:36:08] Joshua Gould: Yeah. Well, I don't own it, so you can have it there, Marshall. 

[00:36:13] Marshall Stern: Well, it's really... Yeah. No, I love it. Thank you. Because it is all about... You know, people talk about legacy. What's the legacy you want to leave? And why do we have to leave the legacy? Why can't we live the legacy now?

[00:36:27] That's... It's really... So, I love it.  that's a... That's great. Okay. Well, that's soaking in with me now. Now I'm going to have to go and have a go for a nice walk and be within myself and start thinking. 

[00:36:43] Joshua Gould: Yeah. Well, you live in a beautiful area of the world to walk. 

[00:36:45] Marshall Stern: It's freaking pouring rain. It is, like, disgusting outside.

[00:36:49] It is beautiful when it's not raining. But thank you. It, it, it is a great place to walk. It's just, it's, it's raining a lot. Maybe I'll... That's one of the things I'll tell my older self. Why didn't I live somewhere which, which had more sun? 

[00:37:01] Joshua Gould: Yeah. Or just go for a walk in the rain. 

[00:37:03] Marshall Stern: Go for the walk. See, that's the mindset. We're going back to mindset. Yes. So, do you go for the walk, do you go for a walk when it's, like, 140 degrees? 

[00:37:13] Joshua Gould: I do, actually. I'm so ADHD, and my wife sometimes just kicks me out on a weekend. She can't stand me walking around because I can't sit still. So, she, so she says, "Take the dog for a walk," and any temperature… 

[00:37:26] Marshall Stern: Any temperature.

[00:37:27] Joshua Gould: Same way on the boat. Like, if there's a day that I can get out, and it's not dangerous weather, it doesn't matter how hot it is, I'll be baking on the fly bridge trying to figure out how to anchor the damn thing in a busy anchorage. Yes. So yeah, no, I, I have this mindset of don't wait.

[00:37:45] You know, unless it's dangerous, just go for it. 

[00:37:51] Marshall Stern: That's actually, that's a, that, that's a, I think that's something that we, most of us need to live, live by a bit more. 

[00:37:57] Joshua Gould: Yeah, but by just a health warning, it gets you in trouble, that mindset as well. 

[00:38:01] Marshall Stern: Yes. No, I know, I know, I know. Yeah, I know. It's why we need to surround ourselves with people, people like you, people like me, people who can actually...

[00:38:09] Or our significant others who usually are the ones who say, "No, no, what are you doing? Don't go for it." 

[00:38:14] Joshua Gould: That's what I love about these podcasts is if you didn't grow up, and I did, in a household with business owners, then 20 years ago or 25 years ago, you really... How did you get advice? How did you find people?

[00:38:31] Especially if you grew up in a, an area where there was no business owners. My dad was a great advisor and he, he gave me a lot of exposure, but now you go to wherever you get your favorite podcasts and you can hear all these people's opinions. You don't have to agree with them all, but it just opens your mind up. You know?

[00:38:50] Marshall Stern: Yeah, 100%.

[00:38:51] Joshua Gould: It's excellent. 

[00:38:52] Marshall Stern: Yeah, 100%. Okay, this has been perfect. Any parting words for our audience? 

[00:38:58] Joshua Gould: If you want to find me, I'm always happy to connect on LinkedIn and you can just, you know how to do it, Josh Gould, thebigword, on LinkedIn and, you know, happy to connect.

[00:39:08] Marshall Stern: Awesome. Perfect. Well, I'll put that in the show notes. So, Josh, thank you so much for being part of this, the journey of our second year of this podcast, The Stern Truth, and I think I might have to go for that walk now. You have me thinking. 

[00:39:22] Joshua Gould: All right. Thank you very much, Marshall.

[00:39:23] Marshall Stern: So, thank you. You don't go anywhere, but for everyone else, love to hear your comments, your feedback, and your insights.

[00:39:30] Just what has resonated with you? There's just so much here. I'll put Josh's contact info in the show notes. Give this podcast, if you've enjoyed it, please give it a five-star review so other people can find this podcast and listen to all the amazing insights. He's given, like, probably 10 or 11 or 12 golden nuggets, which we love to hear on this podcast.

[00:39:52] So until next week, we'll see you again on another episode of The Stern Truth Business Unfiltered.

[00:40:00] Thank you so much for tuning in to the Stern Truth. If you found today's episode helpful, we would love to hear from you. Please like, share, and leave us a review. Also, if you'd like to be a guest in an upcoming episode or join us in one of our Momentum accountability group sessions, simply email me to marshall@marshallstern.net.

[00:40:21] That's marshall@marshallstern.net. And don't forget to hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode. Until next time, keep pushing forward and leading with confidence.