Ep. 69 The Stern Truth: The Oi's of Business & Leadership With Kim Long

Kim Long is my guest on this episode of the Stern Truth. As a registered psychologist in Alberta with a teaching background, Kim was inspired by her family of helpers to get into the field of psychology, despite some “oi’s” along the way, Covid being a big one.

Through our conversation, I tell him how post-secondary experience teaches business but it doesn't teach entrepreneurship - things like cash flow, ROI, or COGS are more on-the-job lessons.  

Leadership was a big factor for Kim when starting her practice. Nurturing her team while keeping her professional standards, combatting leader loneliness, and consistent learning have allowed Kim to build her team.

Imposter syndrome (yes, it’s everywhere) comes up in our conversation, another of Kim’s “oi’s”. She digs deep and gets to the root of leadership. One of her golden nuggets is that leadership is all about building the capacity of your team so they can grow and shine.  

Let me tell you, my friends, it doesn’t get easier. Imposter syndrome can be a lifelong feeling. And guess what? More people have it than you think. Ask yourself, is what I believe true? If you look at the old you vs. the new, 2.0 you, what were your action steps to get there? 

Another terrific golden nugget that Kim gave was one I love - if you’re worrying about your leadership, you’re probably a better leader than you realize. 

The Stern Truth of being a leader? Just keep going, keep showing up, and take time to reflect on your own growth.

 
Get in touch with Kim here:

Website: www.dochaspsych.com

IG: instagram.com/dochaspsych
Facebook: facebook.com/DochasPsych
YouTube: youtube.com/@DochasPsych

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/dochas-psych

If you’re feeling the “oi’s” of business, lonely, or isolated, and want those like-minded business people, check out our ONtrepreneur Inner Circle. Be my guest and see what the community looks like: https://marshallstern.net/page/ontrepreneur-inner-circle 

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Join my Business Inner Circle Community for free here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thebusinessinnercirclegroup

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I encourage you to reach out with feedback, topic suggestions, and share your own entrepreneurial challenges.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Marshall Stern: So, you know how they say that, be careful what you wish for? Well, today we sit down with Kim Long, who's the director of Dóchas Psychological Services, and we talk about growth and we talked about the oi’s of business and leadership. My friends, I say it every week, grab a pad of paper and pen. This episode is special.

[00:00:27] Not that the other ones aren't. But this episode dives into the growth of her company and how Kim puts it so eloquently, the “oi’s” of that growth and how to navigate it. It's not linear all the time. We know growth isn't linear, but there are a lot of insights here. There are a lot of takeaways that you can use as you grow your business.

[00:00:49] Enjoy this episode and also a reminder. If you are feeling the oi’s of business yourself and feeling lonely and isolated and would love to have people around you, like-minded people who get it, reach out to me. Contact info is in the show notes. Check out our ONtrepreneur Inner Circle. You can simply come as my guest.

[00:01:10] Check it out. We meet every Tuesday and it, it is a great supportive environment. We'll hold you accountable. We'll talk strategies. We talk business. In any case, grab that pad of paper, grab that pen. Oi, is this an episode!

[00:01:33] Hi, I'm Marshall Stern and I've spent over 35 years leading and growing multiple small businesses. I know firsthand the struggles of entrepreneurship, feeling isolated, lonely, overwhelmed, and feeling like you have to do it all by yourself. I've been through multiple recessions, and I have felt the highs and the lows.

[00:01:52] I've been there, and I get it. This podcast is here to change that. Every week I will bring you straight talking advice, real world strategies, and honest conversations about what it takes to succeed in business without the fluff, the gimmicks, or the sugar-coated. If you're ready to stop spinning your wheels and start making real progress, then you are in the right place.

[00:02:15] This is the Stern Truth. 

[00:02:20] Marshall Stern: Welcome back everyone to another episode of The Stern Truth Business Unfiltered, and I'd like to introduce you to my amazing guest. Kim, how are you, Kim? 

[00:02:28] Kim Long: I'm okay. How are you doing? 

[00:02:30] Marshall Stern: I'm doing well, thank you. I always like – 

[00:02:33] Kim Long: You sound so professional, you sound. 

[00:02:34] Marshall Stern: Oh, thank you so much. Appreciate that. Thank you. No, thank you. Alright. Right. Enough of, enough of those pleasantries. Let's get down to, down and dirty with everything, Kim. 

[00:02:43] Kim Long: Excellent. 

[00:02:44] Marshall Stern: Who are you? What do you do? 

[00:02:46] Kim Long: I am currently a registered psychologist in the province of Alberta. I have my own clinical practice, Dóchas Psychological Services.

[00:02:54] Prior to that I used to be a junior high teacher, elementary school teacher, and then, before that I was just trying to survive and I'm a base brat, so I grew up military. 

[00:03:06] Marshall Stern: Okay. Well, thank you for coming on the podcast. Have a great week. Everyone will see you next week. 

[00:03:11] Kim Long: Excellent. I'm glad we answered all those burning questions.

[00:03:15] Marshall Stern: You know, it's actually amazing how many former teachers I meet that are now turned entrepreneur business, this or that. And several of them actually have gone into like a private practice of some sort of, you know, therapy, counseling. It, it's quite interesting. And my daughter's actually going to be, she's, I think I might have mentioned to her pre-chat. She's, she'll be a teacher. 

[00:03:37] Kim Long: Yes. Good. I hope she has all the support she needs because teaching has changed and Lord love them. I don't know how, especially through COVID, I don't know how teachers did it. So I still bow down to the profession, like. 

[00:03:54] Marshall Stern: Yeah. 

[00:03:54] Kim Long: There's some amazing people there. 

[00:03:56] Marshall Stern: Yes, yes, there is. Okay. But let's talk about you. Okay. Talk about you now. So, tell me a little bit about your entrepreneurial journey into the, like how, so you went from teaching, you said to like, how did you decide to make this step and then to have this practice where you actually have people on your team? 

[00:04:17] Kim Long: I don't know that it was ever a conscious decision.

[00:04:21] Now it is because I'm in it. I think. Sometimes things happen by happy accidents. So for me, my undergrad was actually in psychology and then I went back to school for an after degree in education because I didn't know what I wanted to do and I was inspired by my sister and I grew up in a family of helpers.

[00:04:40] So I think I just knew I wanted to help people, but I didn't know how. And then I got over my own fear and went back for my master's in psychology, and that's how I ended up in this realm. And then how did I end up in business? I, I was working for a fantastic practice, decided to try going out on my own.

[00:05:02] And then over time I saw how other provisional psychologists needed a site to learn at or to grow their private practice and they wanted support or, interns who needed supervision and I'm learning better boundaries about if people say they need help, I don't just say, I'll lay down on those train tracks.

[00:05:24] I'm being more purposeful now, but at the time it was like, you need help. That sounds like a great idea. Let's just try it. 

[00:05:31] Marshall Stern: Hmm. 

[00:05:32] Kim Long: So, it, it turned into a happy accident because I always thought I was going to work by myself. And this is not a – I mean, you can do it, but it's so much healthier, I think, in this field to work with a team.

[00:05:45] So I've been lucky, but oi, lots of mistakes along the way. 

[00:05:48] Marshall Stern: All right, let's talk about the oi. 

[00:05:50] Kim Long: Oh, the oi. Where do you want to start with that? Because Yeah. 

[00:05:54] Marshall Stern: Well, like, oi, I've got this thing now. I've got these people, you know, I've got, I, I'm feeding these mouths. 

[00:06:01] Kim Long: Yeah. 

[00:06:02] Marshall Stern: Oi. 

[00:06:02] Kim Long: The oi. The oi didn't really hit until – so COVID happened.

[00:06:09] And I went from receiving five, five phone calls a month to like five in a week, and I went, there's a lot of people who need support right now. We were coming up to the end of our lease at the other building, and so I'm like, if I'm going to expand, I need to expand now. Well, the first oi pressure point is I expanded without really thinking about a financial plan or where's the, how am I going to make sure the money is there?

[00:06:36] I did it I think nine months before my lease was up in the other place. So I was paying a lease in the space we're currently in, as well as a lease in the other space. So, you know, in a desire to help.  and they don't teach us about business in school. I mean, teaching definitely didn't teach me about business and psychology.

[00:06:59] They don't really talk about how do you know your mission statement? How do you know your ideology? How do you, how – what's your return on investment? Like, all of those things. So, I think, long story short, way too late, if I had to pick the biggest oi point is there, there are – don't appear to be a lot of resources out there for psychologists in private practice, a lot of the business resources that are out there are geared towards where you have like a product that you sell and we are the product that sounds really inappropriate, but we are, we are the product and so I.

[00:07:42] I needed to find resources that fit our ideology and what, what I want us to stand for, but also, fit this kind of business model where you don't have to worry about inventory per se. So, that, that's the umbrella. Oi. 

[00:07:58] Marshall Stern: Okay. So lots of oi’s, lots of, oi’s. So, how did you, how do you, how do you,  build a team?

[00:08:07] Kim Long: Yeah, 

[00:08:08] Marshall Stern: Let's go back to the oi bit. Okay. Let, let, let's say this is the Stern Truth, right? 

[00:08:13] Kim Long: Yeah. 

[00:08:13] Marshall Stern: This is the Stern Truth. 

[00:08:15] Kim Long: Yeah. 

[00:08:15] Marshall Stern: They don't teach how to, they don't teach entrepreneurship in any school. Except for maybe an entrepreneurship diploma program at a college. 

[00:08:24] Kim Long: Yeah. Okay. 

[00:08:26] Marshall Stern: Even in university, I don't know if they have, they might have an entrepreneurship one.

[00:08:30] Oh, I don't even know if they do. They teach business, but they're not, this is like we're talking feet on the ground. Frontline cash flow, return on investment. COGS thought they'll teach. 

[00:08:42] Kim Long: They don't teach that – they don't teach that in business? 

[00:08:44] Marshall Stern: They might teach that in business school to a certain degree. Okay. Like, COGS, like, cost of goods and that kind of stuff. The accounting stuff? Yes. 

[00:08:51] Kim Long: Yeah. 

[00:08:51] Marshall Stern: Okay. They'll talk, they'll teach what they call, what they call leadership, which is probably more management, more surface- level. 

[00:08:57] Kim Long: Cool. 

[00:08:58] Marshall Stern: But, so, in college programs, so in Canada, the college programs, yeah. They'll be more practical and they'll probably teach a little bit more. Definitely. In high school, no, I mean… 

[00:09:06] Kim Long: No. 

[00:09:07] Marshall Stern: Like I took – okay. It was a long time ago, but it was called General Business. 

[00:09:13] Kim Long: Oh, okay. 

[00:09:13] Marshall Stern: Even my kids had a business class and it really, all it was, was typing. 

[00:09:18] Kim Long: Yeah. We had Career and Life Management. Like...

[00:09:21] Marshall Stern: Yeah. They, yeah. How to write a, how to write a letter, how to do a resume, how to “dear this” and whatever.

[00:09:26] And your signature. So, but most business owners start a business and unless they've come from an entrepreneurial background, they don't really know what stuff is. Yeah. 

[00:09:35] Kim Long: Really. Wow. 

[00:09:35] Marshall Stern: I don't think you're alone in that. 

[00:09:37] Kim Long: That's frightening. because, it, it is terrifying to, I mean, it, it would be different for me if it was just me.

[00:09:45] Marshall Stern: Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:46] Kim Long: But feeling like I have a team of people that are relying on this ship to keep sailing. 

[00:09:52] Marshall Stern: Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:53] Kim Long: And we are also an educational center. So, it's not just people that are getting an income by working here, it's also people that are trying to finish their education. So, you know, and, and if you miss out on a practice, you can end up being delayed by a year, which means a whole other year of tuition and a whole other.

[00:10:12] So I, you know, I use sarcasm a lot, humor and sarcasm a lot, but I take that so seriously that sometimes it keeps me up at night. 

[00:10:22] Marshall Stern: Yeah. Okay. Thank you. See, I love these conversations. They're organic. Because I don't, I don't have those questions to ask. 

[00:10:30] Kim Long: Yeah. 

[00:10:30] Marshall Stern: But you said that it keeps you up at night, so there are always that keep you up at night.

[00:10:34] Kim Long: Absolutely. 

[00:10:35] Marshall Stern: What are the other things, what keeps, what tends to keep you up at night? 

[00:10:39] Kim Long: Ooh. Well, of course, the, the money part always keeps me up at, at night because that keeps the doors open. Right. And it's, it's an interesting mind curve level to be working in a, almost public service lens where you just want to help people but have to think about, okay, but I have to charge people to help them and they're vulnerable.

[00:11:02] And so, that, that's always a, a point of tension for me. But I think the thing over the last year, year and a half that's really kept me up at night is, oh, I might get emotional. I'm not going to get emotional. I wonder if I'm doing the best job at leadership for my team that I can do. Am I helping them really grow in the ways that they want to grow?

[00:11:28] Are we actually helping people? How can I be better? How can I, how can I nurture people in a way that isn't micromanaging or, like how can I both trust what and who they are as professionals while still holding some sort of standards within my bi? Like, it's all of those kinds of questions, really.

[00:11:53] Leadership, I think I struggle with the term boss. I, oof, I don't like that term. It feels very derogatory to me. 

[00:12:02] Marshall Stern: I'm glad. 

[00:12:03] Kim Long: Yeah. It's not –

[00:12:03] Marshall Stern: I'm glad it's, it's not, no. It's not mine either. 

[00:12:08] Kim Long: Yeah. 

[00:12:09] Marshall Stern: So, thank you for that. So, leadership and I, and I've been talking about this more recently, leadership is heavy.

[00:12:15] Kim Long: Yeah. 

[00:12:16] Marshall Stern: People don't realize that it can be lonely. It can be very heavy because people are relying on us a boss. I mean, if you're a boss, it's heavy too, but it's different. Right. There's a different field to it. Me boss, you employee. I tell you what to do. You do it. 

[00:12:30] Kim Long: Yeah, 

[00:12:30] Marshall Stern: I'm the boss. Buck, buck stops with me.

[00:12:33] Kim Long: Yeah, 

[00:12:33] Marshall Stern: Right. Check your attitude at the door, Missy. Buck stops with me. Just get the work done. All that kind of stuff. Leadership though is people are relying on us, people are relying on us, our clients, our family, our clients, our people or team. 

[00:12:50] Kim Long: Yeah. 

[00:12:51] Marshall Stern: What do you do, if anything, to… I know we talked about some books you've read in the past on leadership and have, have they helped?

[00:12:58] Like what, what else do you do to, maybe, alleviate a little bit of the oi? 

[00:13:02] Kim Long: They've helped, I mean, we talked about the - am I allowed to say the names of them on the air? I don't know how that all works, but the Patrick Lencioni series, that's been incredibly helpful in terms of – I love that it's a parable at first, and then he, he gives the, this what you're supposed to get from it at the end, but there's a lot of freedom in, in figuring out who you are as a leader and what pitfalls to, to look out for and how to build your team.

[00:13:30] And how to like – I love the Working Genius. We use that a lot where we find out the strengths of each member of the team. They're working geniuses. And now when we work on projects, we just make sure we have people from each working genius on the team so that it goes from start to finish, without me having to manage everything because I've learned I'm not a galvanizer, like I'll take care of my own stuff.

[00:13:56] But I trust you to take care of yours. I'm not going to hold hands you through it. You're a professional. Do it right, and then, I think it's Kim Scott with Radical Candor. That one was a great one in terms of how to communicate feedback and that it's not mean to actually give feedback that might be construed as negative.

[00:14:17] And then, the Jim Collins stuff with, you know, your hedgehog and, and we've really been working on that over the last year, year and a half. So I, I do a lot of reading to try to alleviate my nerves about it. And now that I've found things that seem to align with who I am as a person and who I want to be as a leader.

[00:14:35] There's relief in that. Also from the Lencioni books, we now have a strategic team and a tactical team, so we don't have meetings just to say, Hey, we're having a meeting, and you're just spinning your wheel. We're, we're about to have a strategic meeting to talk about, okay, what is elite client care?

[00:14:52] We're the policy people, and then anything that we actually need built, we send to the tactical team, and they build it for us because that's their strength. So that helps. In terms of leadership, we have weekly meetings for like 20 minutes to a half hour, where we just touch base. We talk about the ideal team player concepts and make sure that we're heading down that road.

[00:15:14] But with all of that said, I don't know that anything actually completely takes away the, the worry about it. 

[00:15:20] Because I do feel a little bit like a mama to her, her kids. I'm pretty… I feel that emotion again. Right? Because I feel really protective of my team. They've, they've been with me, many of them, through all the mistakes I've made and still stuck it out with me.

[00:15:37] Marshall Stern: Mm-hmm. 

[00:15:37] Kim Long: So, there's a loyalty there, right? Like, what do you do? I mean, what do you, how do you manage? 

[00:15:43] Marshall Stern: You can't ask me questions. This is my podcast. 

[00:15:45] Kim Long: Listen, dude, like for me it's about imposter syndrome. How do you deal with the imposter syndrome? 

[00:15:50] Marshall Stern: Yeah. No, you know what, first off okay with what you said, I don't know if it ever gets easier.

[00:15:56] The “oi” of that part, the heaviness and the, the worrying. I remember my mom saying to me, I moved out when I was 18. She moved, she moved to Calgary, she got remarried, moved to Calgary. I decided I'm staying in Winnipeg. Why? I don’t know. A couple of years later I was in Vancouver, so it's okay. But, so I was, I was on my own early, like years before any of my friends, and she would always call you, okay, are you okay?

[00:16:20] Or whatever. I said, Mom, I'm like, 18. I'm – Mom, I'm 19. Mom, I'm 24. I'm okay. She goes, honey, I'll never stop worrying about you. Yeah. And even on her deathbed. Like, I'm sorry, whatever. But even in her last days in the hospital, she was more concerned about all of us. And she knew she was going, she was ready.

[00:16:37] Kim Long: Yeah. 

[00:16:38] Marshall Stern: That we were going to be okay and that my kids were going to be okay and all this stuff. She was, she was not going to go until she knew we were okay. 

[00:16:45] Kim Long: Yeah. Same with my mom. It's funny how that works out. 

[00:16:49] Marshall Stern: And, and I remember going to, I remember, I think our first trip, me and my wife, you know, when the kids were young, went to, I think it was Vegas for the weekend or for a few days.

[00:16:57] And my in-laws were staying with the kids. And, I remember, like, I, I felt it, like I constantly, like I remember saying to my wife, I, now I know what my mom meant like, we're away. We're supposed to be a -  you know, having fun. We're, we're supposed to be having this – I'm constantly thinking about them, worrying about them.

[00:17:14] Always in the back of your mind. Always in the back of my mind. 

[00:17:16] Kim Long: Always there. 

[00:17:16] Marshall Stern: Yeah. Now my son's away to university. Thank God for Find My Friends on the phone because, I, he's on it and I, he knows, right? Just so it makes me feel better that I know where he is, even though he is in Kingston, which is like, everything is like within like five blocks of each other.

[00:17:32] But –

[00:17:33] Kim Long: But, still, like, you just, you just want to know that he's okay. 

[00:17:36] Marshall Stern: Yes. And trust me, I know as a leader that's a leader of a family, I know as a leader of a business, when I have my employees, my sign company, especially through the pandemic, like there were like, I was up like sleepless nights and worrying about how we're going to do this and, and how I'm going to be able to keep them like through the pandemic. Right. 

[00:17:55] Kim Long: Yeah. 

[00:17:55] Marshall Stern: And because that same thing, they were with me, one of them was with me till the end, like 26 years. 

[00:18:01] Kim Long: Wow. 

[00:18:03] Marshall Stern: Another one for 15. So similar to you, like Right. Loyalty. 

[00:18:06] Kim Long: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:18:07] Marshall Stern: So I don't know if it ever gets easier that way. Less worry. You mentioned imposter syndrome though. 

[00:18:14] Kim Long: Yeah. Well, first I need to acknowledge that that wasn't the answer I wanted to hear. 

[00:18:18] Marshall Stern: Right. 

[00:18:19] Kim Long: You were supposed to tell me that it gets easier just giving you that tip. I just, you know, 

[00:18:24] Marshall Stern: But this is the Stern – this is the Stern Truth. 

[00:18:26] Kim Long: It's the truth. I know. 

[00:18:27] Marshall Stern: Keep going.

[00:18:28] Kim Long: Okay. Okay, fine. I'll just go rock in the corner about it later. But yes. Imposter syndrome. Yes. 

[00:18:35] Marshall Stern: How does it show up for you? 

[00:18:36] Kim Long: It shows up in many ways. So, I think because a part of me really doesn't view myself as a leader, I feel, sometimes, like I'm wearing somebody else's clothes, you know? It's like, oh, this doesn't quite fit.

[00:18:49] But what I try to do is lean into those moments where it doesn't fit and reflect on what makes it not fit. What, what is it that I need to tweak so that it feels more like me? Then as a psychologist, I think because of the way I practice, I, I practice from a very humanistic, existential, emotional lens.

[00:19:12] I, I want to be very, very genuine. And so sometimes it feels less clinical skill and more like, oh, well, that I, I'm not sure what happened in that session. So, you feel a little bit, I mean, things happen and the client's able to communicate that, but you feel like, well, but I was just me. So, if I'm just being me as a leader, quote unquote, but I don't view myself as a leader, then it feels really fake and it feels like I'm supposed to be doing something else.

[00:19:45] I, I think we – I think language is loaded. And we hear words like boss or leader or whatever, and we, we get this picture and I'm, I just wonder. 

[00:19:55] Marshall Stern: Okay. But I have a question. Another question for you, Kim, on, on this whole leadership thing. What do you think, what do you think leadership is? 

[00:20:01] Kim Long: I could give you a sarcastic answer, but I won't.

[00:20:03] Marshall Stern: No, I'd love to – no, sarcastic is good. What do you think it is?

[00:20:06] Kim Long: Anything that I'm not doing? No. That's just self depreciation. I, I think leadership, honestly is the ability to build leadership capacity in your team. That it doesn't all have to fall to you and that it's your job to let your team shine while you handle the ick underneath and kind of keep, keep the foundation strong so that they can grow and, and shine and, and all of those things.

[00:20:38] Yeah. To me, to me that's leadership and, and I also don't think, or I hope. because I'm not sure I've been in this situation. I don't think I would ask my team to do anything that I wouldn't be willing to do myself. 

[00:20:51] Marshall Stern: Yeah. 

[00:20:52] Kim Long: So sometimes we have to look at ethics and revamp our programming and, and things like that.

[00:20:59] And it can make processes more difficult, like more time consuming. Well, but I'm not going to change that and make it more time consuming if a) it doesn't work for the client or the field, and b) if I wouldn't be willing to do it myself. So I'm thinking specifically of our, our youth process. Right. So, you know, but – 

[00:21:23] Marshall Stern: Okay. But here's the thing. 

[00:21:24] Kim Long: What is it to you though? You can't skip this question. What is it to you? 

[00:21:28] Marshall Stern: Oh no, I agree with everything you said a hundred percent, because that is, that's the textbook, the real textbook definition of what leadership is I that I believe in. because there's other stuff. But to me, leadership – I always say this and my kids, go, huh? Leadership is, is, I always say leadership is the things you're doing when you don't think anyone else is watching. 

[00:21:50] Kim Long: Yep. I've heard that said before too. 

[00:21:53] Marshall Stern: No, I said that. No one else said that.  

[00:21:54] Kim Long: Yes. 

[00:21:55] Marshall Stern: No one else said that.

[00:21:55] Kim Long: You – well, it might have come from you. 

[00:21:57] Marshall Stern: And I didn't know that it came from me. I must've said, and someone else copied it. I, if Simon Sinek said it, I got it – 

[00:22:01] Kim Long: Got it on Pinterest somewhere. So it's from you. And I didn't know it. 

[00:22:04] Marshall Stern: It was on a coffee mug. That was from me. Maybe I heard somewhere, but that's what I – 

[00:22:09] Kim Long: Well, so ,what are some of the things though, that a leader does when people aren't watching?

[00:22:15] Marshall Stern: Okay, I'll tell you what. I believe they do. And I was taught this actually way, way back, one of my first jobs, I worked in an automobile dealership. Okay. It was actually my dad's dealership. I was young. I was like 19. And the parts manager sat me down one time and he said, and I was there in my little suit.

[00:22:30] People like, whatever. I was like 19 in the suit and tied everything.  and the parts manager sat me down. He goes, I want to just – he didn't call it leadership. He said, I'm going to give you some advice. He was trying to be a mentor to me, kind of, right? And he said, if you want to make it in any business, always be the first person in a meeting, always be the person to go to the meeting.

[00:22:53] Set up the table, set up the chairs, take the handouts if there's handouts, and put them on every, in front of every chair. Don't wait for anyone to ask you to do it. Stay late. Put the chairs back. Always. 

[00:23:06] Kim Long:  Yeah, 

[00:23:07] Marshall Stern: Always. That is an example of leadership.

[00:23:11] Okay. Problem is, I think for a lot of people when I'm a leadership coach in disguise, that's where my training was with John, John Maxwell years ago, and, and I don't talk about it with small business owners a lot because they don't get it. I'm a leader. Like, they don't get it, that they need to be a leader.

[00:23:28] You do, because you've been reading the books, you've been drinking the Kool-Aid, but a lot of people don't. So, because it's a word, they think of it as a position. 

[00:23:37] Kim Long: True, true. I notice that dichotomy in my head though sometimes too, where leadership just feels like a word then it's, it's what? It's, it's more tangible than that, but it's hard to explain.

[00:23:52] It's an adjective, but I feel like leadership is hard to explain. It's like a, it's like a feeling too. It's not just the definition of actions, it's, it's a sense of ownership, I think, in a way or responsibility. I don't know. 

[00:24:06] But it makes sense to me. 

[00:24:08] Marshall Stern: So here's where I'm going to push back on. 

[00:24:09] Kim Long: Sweet. 

[00:24:10] Marshall Stern: Okay. Sounds like a coach.

[00:24:11] Feels like a coaching session, but, so if I can, let me push back on that because I think that's one, I think that's one of the areas maybe that maybe,  you might want to rethink what you think of leadership or how you think of your role. 

[00:24:22] Kim Long: Yeah. 

[00:24:22] Marshall Stern: Because I think if we think of it as a role or as a position or even a feeling, okay. Yeah, for sure. Imposter syndrome. How am I a leader? How am I, this, how leadership is a thing. Sorry. Leadership is not just a thing. 

[00:24:37] Kim Long: Yeah. 

[00:24:37] Marshall Stern: Leadership is everything. Okay. But leadership is an action. Leadership is what you are doing. So, if you are, you talk about your team, if you are empowering your team to develop, you're developing them as leaders, which you've already said, like that's what you're doing. You're doing it. 

[00:24:54] Kim Long: Yeah. 

[00:24:55] Marshall Stern: So you're doing it. So whether you, if you want to think, well, leader, I, I feel positive. Well, but you're doing it. The, like, the proof is in the pudding. You are actually doing it. 

[00:25:05] Kim Long: Mm-hmm. I, I agree. I, I agree. From a logic brain space.

[00:25:11] Marshall Stern: I know. I'm going to ask you why –

[00:25:12] Kim Long: From emotion, brain space, it, it's an, like, I wonder about the identity piece. 

[00:25:18] Marshall Stern: The identity part. 

[00:25:18] Kim Long: Like, you're, you're right, that, it's leadership comes out in the actions, but I think that there's also – or, and I think there's also an aspect that leadership is also in who you are, like how you approach life.

[00:25:34] Marshall Stern: Yes. But again, if you're putting a word to it, am I a leader, that there's an answer to that You can say yes or no. Am I stepping up as a lead? Am I stepping up as a leader? If, but here's the, here's the thing. If I may add. 

[00:25:48] Kim Long: Absolutely. Yeah. 

[00:25:49] Marshall Stern: And this, I got actually from a therapist. 

[00:25:52] Kim Long: Okay. 

[00:25:53] Marshall Stern: Okay. Years ago.

[00:25:55] Kim Long: Yeah. 

[00:25:55] Marshall Stern: When dealing with people, and, you probably use something similar. When dealing with people with anxiety when they're thinking, oh, the word this is going to happen. 

[00:26:02] Kim Long: Yeah. 

[00:26:02] Marshall Stern: She said, there are three questions to ask yourself. Number one, is this true? Number two, is this really true? 

[00:26:08] Kim Long: Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:09] Marshall Stern: And number three, do I have proof, 

[00:26:11] Kim Long: Right? Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:12] Marshall Stern: Okay. So whenever we're doubting ourselves, three questions. I'm not, I'm a shitty leader. I'm not – am I a good leader? Am I really a good leader? Is this really true? Is this true? Yeah. I'm not, I don't know. Maybe I'm not a good leader. Maybe I'm, I'm not cut out for this. Right? Is it really true?

[00:26:28] Kim Long: Yeah. 

[00:26:30] Marshall Stern: And do I have proof and where's the proof? Right. Where's the proof the other way? So, a lot of the, I know it's logical, trying to get away from the emotion, emotional to logical. 

[00:26:39] Kim Long: As, as a therapist, completely agree with you. That's a great strategy. You know. I think we just need to get rid of language.

[00:26:47] Marshall Stern: Yeah. 

[00:26:48] Kim Long: Like what do we need the label for? 

[00:26:50] Marshall Stern: Yeah. 

[00:26:50] Kim Long: And I get it. It's so that we can communicate with each other, and, and have a shared language and really understand each other. I find it so much easier for myself. When I just focus on the actions, like you're saying, where I just focus on the actions and I don't focus on the label of it because the minute there's a label, my, my biases, my preconceived notions of what that is supposed to look like, come into play and my behavior changes.

[00:27:19] Even though I'll have proof that what I'm doing is working for my team, it's, it's these old image, so it's – I guess it's competing with outdated  teachings of what leadership looks like. 

[00:27:36] Marshall Stern: Yeah. 

[00:27:37] Kim Long: Right. And that's competing with who I am because I never thought I'd be doing this. I thought I was going to be teaching for the rest of my life, and then I gave my head a shake at 10 years and went, when am I, I can't do this.

[00:27:49] It's killing me. So, you know, pivoting and doing this, then I never thought I'd be leading a team. So, there's a lot of, I guess that's the other important thing about leadership though, is to be able to be self-reflective. 

[00:28:03] Marshall Stern: Mm-hmm. 

[00:28:04] Kim Long: And, and be willing to challenge yourself or find people and bring people into your life that will challenge you.

[00:28:10] Marshall Stern: Yes, yes. 

[00:28:10] Kim Long: You know, like, I appreciate these kinds of discussions because it does make me go, huh? Yep. That's a bias I need to work on. 

[00:28:18] Marshall Stern: Yes. Well, you know, that'll require, what, 10 sessions with me and we'll get you fixed up. 

[00:28:23] Kim Long: Perfect. 

[00:28:24] Marshall Stern: Just call my, call my office in the morning and book your session. Yes. 

[00:28:27] Kim Long: Hey, about that, I cried all night, Dr. Marshall. 

[00:28:31] Marshall Stern: But it's, but it is true. And we do put and, and the label part of it, right? And I know we've gone kind of gone off topic. But, but this is okay because there are a lot of people out there. It's why I don't call myself a leadership coach. 

[00:28:44] Kim Long: Mm-hmm.

[00:28:44] Marshall Stern: Because it is a word.

[00:28:46] Kim Long: Yeah. 

[00:28:46] Marshall Stern: But everything I do with my clients, it's all around leadership. It's all having them step into the role and the actions of what a leader does for themselves, for their family, for their team, for their community. 

[00:28:58] Kim Long: Yeah. 

[00:28:59] Marshall Stern: Right. 

[00:28:59] Kim Long: Well, one thing that we were talking about before, I think, was the importance of resilience.

[00:29:04] I've given that a lot of thought after we spoke previously was you've got to be able, as a leader to, to pivot and recognize when you've been knocked down to your knees and figure out, okay, how am I going to get back up like this? This isn't over. How do I get back up? So, and that's again where the leadership coach or other people can help you with that.

[00:29:28] It also has to come from within. So how do you build your resilience? How do you, how do you encounter difficult situations and believe I can do this? 

[00:29:37] Marshall Stern: A hundred percent. And, and the one thing I do with, with my clients is – and you might even do this with your clients, right? 

[00:29:43] Kim Long: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:29:44] Marshall Stern: Is that we have to change.

[00:29:46] You talk about, used the word identity before. Okay. And we all have an identity and we all have a sort of, everyone has an identity. They want it changed to or improved or become, right? So, what I do is I have this exercise called the old versus the new. 

[00:30:03] Right? Okay. So it's what does, like in this case, what now?

[00:30:06] Not, not calling you old because I'm a lot older than you. No, that's fine. The old Kim, and there's nothing wrong with the old Kim. 

[00:30:12] Kim Long: The former Kim. 

[00:30:13] Marshall Stern: The former Kim. Okay. I'll change my terminology. 

[00:30:15] Kim Long: Yeah, it's all good. 

[00:30:17] Marshall Stern: The, the, the artist formerly known as what, how does she show up in these different situations?

[00:30:22] What are her action steps? What are her responses, right, versus. The new Kim or the, whatever you want to call it, right. Kim 2.0. Kim 2.0. Kim two, 1.0, 2.0. Yeah. And that's where it's more the qualities and the, and how you respond, the resilience, the, you know, being resourceful, all of the, all of the, yeah, leader-ish kind of stuff that we're talking about. 

[00:30:45] Kim Long: Well, I think that speaks to what you were saying earlier about finding the proof. When you do that, former versus current or however you want to frame it, what you're really doing is saying over the course of your life. 

[00:30:57] Where have you shown up?

[00:30:59] Marshall Stern: Yeah. 

[00:30:59] Kim Long: And so you're gathering all these instances of proof or overcoming difficult situations and you're building that narrative in the person's head about, wait a minute, you got this? 

[00:31:09] Marshall Stern: Yeah. 

[00:31:10] Kim Long: Like, you just got to slow down and take, take a hot minute, regroup and go kick some butt. 

[00:31:16] Marshall Stern: Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent.

[00:31:18] Kim Long: Yeah. 

[00:31:19] Marshall Stern: Okay. So I don't know where, where were we? All right. Okay. I don't even know where we were. What's, what's one thing that –  okay, how did I put this – earlier Kim.  

[00:31:30] Kim Long: Yes. No, that's fine. You can call it old Kim. That's fine. 

[00:31:33] Marshall Stern: Oh, no. Earlier, younger. What, what is one thing that your younger self, you wish you had known, then, that, that you know now when you started your practice, that maybe would've prepared you better or made it easier?

[00:31:45] Kim Long: There's a few, but, I think, there's something that my former therapist used to say to me all the time, and it was a quote by Goethe, and it's, when you trust yourself, then you will know how to live. And that's what I think I would tell myself because depending on where you're at in whatever situation, that, that phrase can take on a different meaning for you.

[00:32:06] But it comes back to, if I just unlock my heart, it will lead me to where I actually need to go. So trust myself because my motives are pure and it might not always be perfect, but I can fix it. Right. But I have to at least try. 

[00:32:22] Marshall Stern: I like that. 

[00:32:23] Kim Long: Yeah. 

[00:32:24] Marshall Stern: Okay. Okay. Okay. Before we wrap up, we love golden nuggets and I, I – 

[00:32:28] Kim Long: It’s not time already.

[00:32:29] Marshall Stern: I know. I know. Might have to have you back for version 2.0 or 

[00:32:34] Kim Long: Woo-hoo! 

[00:32:34] Marshall Stern: Or the second round. We love golden nuggets. We love the Stern Truths. Is there one, for people listening, Maybe they're doubting their leadership, right?

[00:32:45] Kim Long: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:32:46] Marshall Stern: Okay. One piece of advice, one golden nugget. You would, might want to part, partake onto them? 

[00:32:53] Kim Long: That if you're worrying about it, you're probably a better leader than you realize.

[00:32:56] Right, because if you're not worrying about it, then do you really care? Like, if it's not on, if it's not on your mind, you're not reflecting and you're not seeking and you're not trying to grow, so are you leading? So, if you're worrying about it, you're doing just fine. 

[00:33:12] Marshall Stern: Absolutely love that. 

[00:33:14] Kim Long: If you worry too much, come see me.

[00:33:16] Marshall Stern: Yeah, we'll put your –  

[00:33:18] Kim Long: Shameless plug. 

[00:33:18] Marshall Stern: That's right. Well, no, we'll put your contact information down below. You, your clients are, your clients are, all in person or virtual or both? 

[00:33:30] Kim Long: Well, the clinic, we can see both. I tend to limit mine to being in person just because of how I practice. 

[00:33:37] Marshall Stern: Right.

[00:33:38] Kim Long:  But yes, as long as you are living in Alberta, then we can see you. So, yeah. 

[00:33:45] Marshall Stern: Awesome, awesome. Well, we'll put your, your, your contact info on the show notes anyways. 

[00:33:50] Kim Long: Thank you. 

[00:33:51] Marshall Stern: And honestly, I, I've thoroughly enjoyed this. This has been amazing. I didn't even know we were going to go down this road. 

[00:33:57] Kim Long: No, but that, like you said, that's the cool part of it.

[00:34:01] Marshall Stern: A part of it, a cool part of it. And it's more than just, it's the oi’s, right? It's more than just about leadership, but it's about just being, things being heavy and everything beyond us. 

[00:34:10] Kim Long: Yeah. 

[00:34:10] Marshall Stern: Whether you have a team or you're doing it yourself. Just because you hire a team – and that's why I want people – like, just because you hire employees or you hire contractors or sub subcontractors doesn't mean all of a sudden everything is great.

[00:34:23] Kim Long: No. 

[00:34:23] Marshall Stern: In fact it can be even heavier. because now you have all of this, these responsibilities. 

[00:34:28] Kim Long: Yeah. 

[00:34:28] Marshall Stern: It is how you manage it. It's how you step into that, that L word. 

[00:34:32] Kim Long: I heard somewhere that just because you have a team working with you, it doesn't mean that they work for you. You actually work for them. And, and that's how I try to approach it, 

[00:34:42] Marshall Stern: That, my friends, is leadership.

[00:34:47] All right. 

[00:34:48] Kim Long: Okay. Well, I hope everyone takes care of themselves, and thank you so much. This was – I love that you challenged me, and this is such a great conversation. I'm going to take a lot from it, so thank you. 

[00:34:57] Marshall Stern: Awesome. Call my office in the morning. Okay. I'll – for, for the rest of you. Love your, love to hear your, your feedback, your comments.

[00:35:04] Your insights and obviously give us a five-star whatever review because other people will then, that's my plug, be able, will, then, find this, this episode. And we'll see you again next week on another episode of the Stern Truth Business Unfiltered. 

[00:35:20] Thank you so much for tuning in to the Stern Truth. If you found today's episode helpful, we would love to hear from you. Please like, share, and leave us a review. Also, if you'd like to be a guest in an upcoming episode or join us in one of our Moment Accountability Group sessions, simply email me to marshall@marshallstern.net. 

[00:35:40] That's marshall@marshallstern.net. And don't forget to hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode. Until next time, keep pushing forward and leading with confidence.